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 Post subject: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:02 pm 
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Ever wanted something that explained everything you needed to know about the process of conducting a combat in TRoS?

Shawn has produced an excellent guide that takes you through every step of conducting a combat in TRoS. Every decision that has to be made by the referee and players, every calculation that needs to be made, all in the correct sequence -- with all the rules from Core and TFoB, in a single brief document.

We need feedback on this one -- it isn't complete, it isn't correct, it needs more detail. That said, it isn't far away from being the very first thing you hand out to a new player as they are introduced to the combat system.

Regards,


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File comment: Draft v0.2
TROS_Combat_Walkthrough.pdf [193.89 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:38 am 
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Thanks for posting this, Ian.

As Ian said, I'd love to get some feedback on this. I've been through a few revisions as I encounter various rules clarifications, but I'm quite certain a few things are still amiss. Note that there is some minor rule variations in here, but I don't think it's anything that hasn't been commonly used by the community (i.e. benefit of toughness is limited to opposing the attacker's strenth). I'm happy to do a "official only" variation if there's anything in here which is too house-ruley. At the same time, I'd welcome any input on rule interpertations that have become sort of the default over time.

It's fairly lengthy as-is and I am trying to avoid feature-creep on it, so there may also be a few minor things that are left unsaid. However, I did make an effort to avoid overuse of acronyms and other things which will perplex newbies.

if nothing else, the exercise has been really interesting and has helped me to learn the system.

Shawn


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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:02 am 
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Just did a quick skim. Right off I noticed that stances are missing their penalties. Aggressive stance gets -2 CP to defense, and defensive stance gets -2 to attack. (Assuming I remember things rightly...)

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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:57 am 
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Daeruin wrote:
Just did a quick skim. Right off I noticed that stances are missing their penalties. Aggressive stance gets -2 CP to defense, and defensive stance gets -2 to attack. (Assuming I remember things rightly...)


Thanks. Good point. I had forgotten about the penalties because it didn't come up in my games so far, but of course I can imagine a situation where someone would bluff an aggressive stance and then throw white, or vice-versa.

I also have "TN" as the heder in that column, for no apparent reason :) ... The dangers of copy-and-paste.


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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:27 am 
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I read through this in more detail today and made some comments in Adobe Reader. I'll e-mail it to you.

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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:50 pm 
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1 - Don't understand the rule where a red/red only gets 1 exchange. Don't see this in the rulebook, even though I've noticed the simulator used it. Is it a TFOB rule? Also, it says to go to step 3 after step 4, but this is incorrect, right? Shouldn't it say go to step 1?

1b - You don't need to say "go to step 4" under the Red/White section of Step C. In fact, it's misleading because it sounds like you are supposed to skip steps 1 - 3!

2 - Really like that you include "call out the round #" to keep track of fatigue

3 - Drawing weapons doesn't say what you roll. Does it require CP, or is it reflex?

4 - (-1 CP) Blocking attack to lower legs with shield? Is this a house or TFOB rule? Does it stack with the attacker's +1 CP for attacking that area, or is it a replacement rule? Interesting.

5 - Standing up doesn't say what you roll. A CP roll, Reflex, knockdown?

6 - Hey, you took my hosue rule! J/K. Is the method you use for calculating damage a house rule of TFOB rule? It's EXACTLY what I was going to use myself!

7 - I didn't see anything about what happens if in the case of a pause. I know it's simple, but it seems there should be any entry something along the lines of: "If the neither the attacker nor defender attack, there is a pause and the round is immediately over. Restart the combat (goto Step A)."

I really like this PDF. It would make a great quick reference during the game in case someone forgets something important. Here is a brainstorm I had, though it might sound terrible once I type it out: Instead of saying "go to Step X", say something like "perform another 'Exchange of Blows' (goto step 4)". And color code it. I suggest color coding these three steps for ease of finding: A. Initiative, 1. Start of Combat and 4. Exchange of Blows. Then when you say "go to" you can color code that, too. Make the colors wildly different.

-- John


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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Big J Money wrote:
1 - Don't understand the rule where a red/red only gets 1 exchange. Don't see this in the rulebook, even though I've noticed the simulator used it. Is it a TFOB rule? Also, it says to go to step 3 after step 4, but this is incorrect, right? Shouldn't it say go to step 1?


I was under the impression the red/red=1 exchange was a core rule, but I can't find the reference now and I'm thinking it may have been a ruling in the forums. If anyone "in the know" can confirm or deny this, I'd be appreciate.

As for the numbering, yeah, my numbering references got screwed up through some edits. I've made those fixes.

Big J Money wrote:
1b - You don't need to say "go to step 4" under the Red/White section of Step C. In fact, it's misleading because it sounds like you are supposed to skip steps 1 - 3!


Yep. You're right. This is an error. Thanks!

Big J Money wrote:
2 - Really like that you include "call out the round #" to keep track of fatigue


That was stolen from someone else, I believe :)

Big J Money wrote:
3 - Drawing weapons doesn't say what you roll. Does it require CP, or is it reflex?


It's a standard terrain roll, so uses CP. Someone else commented that this section and the terrain roll tables were not clear, so I've made some improvemenets in my latest version. All of this should be straightforward now.

Big J Money wrote:
4 - (-1 CP) Blocking attack to lower legs with shield? Is this a house or TFOB rule? Does it stack with the attacker's +1 CP for attacking that area, or is it a replacement rule? Interesting.


That's actually a good question. I believe it is a replacement rule, and it seems to make a bit more sense to me. But, I can't seem to find the reference for it in order to verify it's level of "officialness"

Big J Money wrote:
5 - Standing up doesn't say what you roll. A CP roll, Reflex, knockdown?


It's a Knockdown (attribute pool) roll, and I've clarified this in my latest version.

Big J Money wrote:
6 - Hey, you took my hosue rule! J/K. Is the method you use for calculating damage a house rule of TFOB rule? It's EXACTLY what I was going to use myself!


:) This is a pretty commonly used option from TFOB (if you are referring to limiting toughness to opposing the attacker's strength)

Big J Money wrote:
7 - I didn't see anything about what happens if in the case of a pause. I know it's simple, but it seems there should be any entry something along the lines of: "If the neither the attacker nor defender attack, there is a pause and the round is immediately over. Restart the combat (goto Step A)."


Yeah. good point.

Big J Money wrote:
I really like this PDF. It would make a great quick reference during the game in case someone forgets something important. Here is a brainstorm I had, though it might sound terrible once I type it out: Instead of saying "go to Step X", say something like "perform another 'Exchange of Blows' (goto step 4)". And color code it. I suggest color coding these three steps for ease of finding: A. Initiative, 1. Start of Combat and 4. Exchange of Blows. Then when you say "go to" you can color code that, too. Make the colors wildly different.


This is a nice idea, and something I've thought about. However, I use a b/w laser printer so I've sort of selfishly kept colors out of it. I may consider adding them in, or I might also just make the MSWord files generally available so people can edit them as they like.

Thanks for the feedback!


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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:49 am 
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Just a note that Ian has uploaded a revised draft for this document (via the link at the top of this thread). I have (hopefully) clarified and corrected some things based on the feedback I have recieved.

I'd still welcome any suggestions. I also have a walkthrough for missile combat, based on the TFOB rules, in another thread hereabouts. I am working on ones for Mounted Combat, Winding and Binding (which is making my head explode) and Grappling.


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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:59 pm 
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Hi new registraee coming back to TROS after a bit of an absence.
I really like the combat walk through, though I suspect there might be an error in the cinematic terrain rolls TN for Very difficult. Very difficult is easier than tricky!
The original rule re shield and the lower legs was +1 CP to the attacker when swinging at the lower legs vs shields. This is on page 234 of the rulebook. Doesn't say anything about the defender actually using the shield to block.
I'm a little confused re the fatigue for sprinting vs multiple opponents. (+2 armor penalty for purpsoes of determining fatigue). What does that mean? Is it only that exchange (which would be weird) or is it for the entire combat?

Aaron


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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:45 am 
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Azza wrote:
Hi new registree coming back to TROS after a bit of an absence.


Welcome to trosfans and welcome back to TRoS. Thanks for your input on the walkthrough -- every bit of feedback we get on the downloads is very much appreciated.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:04 am 
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Hi All,

Azza, I believe that the fatigue rules are,

You lose 1 die from your CP every 8 - (Armour CP Penalty + Modifiers) rounds.

So the +2 Armour penalty for sprinting means that you would lose 1 die after 6 exchanges if you sprint and are not wearing armour.

Simon Burling

P.S. I hope thast I have got this right :?:


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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:34 pm 
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No quite. You lose 1 die from your CP every ((2xEN)-(Armour Penalty + Modifiers)). It just happens that 2xEN happens to be 8 for the default value of EN.

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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:55 pm 
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You have white white not taking a combat round. My understanding was that white white was still a combat round, and therefore took only a few seconds. It allows recovery of fatigue and you still have to make checks for blood loss. Just because you're not fighting doesn't mean your injuries disappeared.


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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:13 pm 
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This is awesome. It helps with games and makes sure that everyone checks everything. It has helped my players also get a greater undrestanding of everything instead of having me explain every time.

Now if there was a grapple, or a winding/binding version of this.

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 Post subject: Re: The TRoS Combat Walkthrough
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:08 pm 
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Indeed kudos to Shawn for producing the walkthroughs! Very handy for everyone and invaluable for new players.

Regards,

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