It is currently Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:22 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
It is with much anticipation that I am able to announce that trosfans' first formal project is under development.

This project will create a "real medieval" magic system for TRoS. It will be based on Moses Maimonides "The Guide For The Perplexed", a 12th century text which contains (amongst many other things) his analysis of the beliefs/philosophy of the Mu'tazilah sect of the Mohammedans. By taking the "universe-view" of the Mu'tazilah as described by Maimonides and creating a magic system that entrenches that view into the gaming environment we will have a magic system that feels medieval, one that is very different from what we might consider "real world" and one that is entirely different from those attempts to create magic systems based on medieval magic texts or Victorian-era revisions of those medieval magic texts.

Brian Leybourne has agreed to act as the Technical Consultant to the project. His will be the final decision on any design issue that might arise during development of The Guide.

A new forum has been created to house the development and playtest process. It is under the Rule Modifications forum.

I am asking any and all members of this community to participate in the project. If you would like to participate in the project and have access to the product while it is in development then I am asking you to become a Supporter of trosfans by donating to this site. Like all contributions to the site this money will be used to fund development of more TRoS material -- in particular professional artwork.

The baseline draft version of The Guide is in development and I expect it to be available in early June for those involved in the project to download.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 134
*Empties pockets*

Do you take fluff?

I'll have to look at my finances and see what I can afford - I'm afraid it won't be a massive amount as I'm currently unemployed :(

As to the rest: Good news :) glad Brian said he'd be willing to help.

EDIT: I'd also be willing to do the occasional sketch for the good of the site - I'm not *quite* professional and I mostly work with concepts, but if you don't mind pencil sketches then I'll happily do some stuff for free.

http://gagrin.deviantart.com if you're interested at all. Not that I upload very much, but it should give you an idea of the style I use.

_________________
Honour is not an effective survivial trait.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 34
I can draw fairly well if need be, atleast the equivalent to the work in the core book. I take a while and i usually only use pencil, but if somebody knows how to work photoshop, i can send it to them.

I would also do it for free.

I've never heard of the book you are talking about, but I would more than love to help. Right now i'm kinda working on a more Conan-esque magic system combined with a little Dark Sun and Starwars Flavor. It's more akin to the Conan Comics by dark horse (such as when he is enslaved in Hyperborea) and Juathuur. It has a feel of the "force" or something to that nature because it lacks divining elements such as FIREBALL, but i felt that you could create concussion waves and telekinesis. I'm still expirementing. not that it matters. When i finish with my idea I'll post it.

My email is bulemicbear@gmail.com

_________________
Failure is nothing more than a number of times before you succeed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
GaGrin wrote:
Do you take fluff?


Certainly -- it just has to be really good fluff. ;)

GaGrin wrote:
I'll have to look at my finances and see what I can afford


US$5 is the minimum payment to become a supporter of the site. Please keep in mind that I am willing to pay for contributions to this site. So if you do artwork for me then I will pay you for it. If you are interested in this email me directly.

GaGrin wrote:
As to the rest: Good news :) glad Brian said he'd be willing to help.


We are all used to things moving at a glacial pace when it comes to TRoS development over the last three years. Hence it was surprising and somewhat challenging to get in contact with Brian, discuss what I had in mind, and get his support all within a day. This project will go ahead and go through to completion. It won't be anything like SatF was going to be or may one day be but it will provide a good, low fantasy/medieval alternative to the TRoS Core magic system.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 34
What kind of work are you looking for, perhaps you could give me a general concept and I'll start workin' on some stuff.

Email me


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:56 pm
Posts: 24
Same here, some guidelines or a link to the work you are telling us about would be nice.

The only change i have personally made to magic thus far was to convert the spellcasting TNs to successes to better match the newer skill system from the Companion. (this was done at a rate of 3 points of TN to 1 success, therefore at spell with TN:7 would need 3 successes)

For my Conan setting i changed Aging to taint, which could be bled off with rituals and sacrifices.

And finally i'm designing a whole alchemical system for another setting of my own design but which loosely follows the stuff i wrote for herbalism.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 134
I'm going to have to re-read that document a few times I think, but the flexiblity of that interpretation allows nearly anything to be done provided it can be imagined and talked about in terms of the accidents.

A little more information on what exactly constitutes an accident what be useful, but my initial impression is positive. The only potential downside I see is making the use of magick a purely academic study where medieval society considered witchcraft to be accountable with devilworship.

That is however, not a mechanical issue. Mechanically I see this working as enforcement of will on the atoms of the targets. As everything (wonderfully) is an atom and all atoms are considered equal, you can get away with just about anything provided you can come up with a good reason for the characters will to allow an extension of the power of God, whether by his will or not (though I suspect all things will need to be by the will of God, assuming that it is God's will that we enforce our own free will and by extension the power we have).

The only thing that this makes absolute in terms of the greater world is God's existance. The nature of the atoms will always remain outside the realms of perception as per the 12th Proposition, so remarkably I think just about everything else can be done.

I do have issues seeing how the accidents effect the form of their bodies directly as the atoms themselves aren't supposed to be responsible for that, but thats why a short disscussion on the nature of accidents would be prudent.

_________________
Honour is not an effective survivial trait.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
GaGrin wrote:
I'm going to have to re-read that document a few times I think, but the flexiblity of that interpretation allows nearly anything to be done provided it can be imagined and talked about in terms of the accidents.


It's not quite open-slather but, yes, there is considerable freedom. They were, after all, trying to come up with a rationale that explained everything.

GaGrin wrote:
A little more information on what exactly constitutes an accident what be useful, but my initial impression is positive. The only potential downside I see is making the use of magick a purely academic study where medieval society considered witchcraft to be accountable with devilworship.


There are a couple of points here. Yes, the Accidents need to be explained. They are always paired in opposites -- Life/Death, Hard/Soft, and so on. Do Accidents replace the Vagaries of Core? Lots and lots of questions.

Personally I don't think this philosophy of necessity leads to what we might call High Magic -- academic magic such as horoscopes and similar studious forms of magic. Those that practice Low Magic -- ritualistic magic, for example -- may have no understanding of the Accidents but that is what they are manipulating when they perform their spells.

GaGrin wrote:
That is however, not a mechanical issue. Mechanically I see this working as enforcement of will on the atoms of the targets. As everything (wonderfully) is an atom and all atoms are considered equal, you can get away with just about anything provided you can come up with a good reason for the characters will to allow an extension of the power of God (snip)


There were two main streams of western medieval Christian thought on the subject of magic and where it derived it's power. The Augustinian model, as detailed in Two Cities, wherein everything supernatural was either from God and His angels or from the enemy and his demons. The other model held that God hid (occluded, from where we get occult) this knowledge and power during the act of creation and that man was free to discover what he could about the workings of the universe and use that knowledge as he saw fit. In this model magic isn't supernatural; rather, it is part of the natural order of things, a body of knowledge to be discovered, understood, and used like any other science.

It isn't necessarily straightforward to say which model this system will support, either of these or another model entirely. If magic is "morally neutral", as in the second model above, then personally I don't find it logical that the spell caster would suffer a variety of horrible fates from casting too much magic in too short a period. If on the other hand the spell caster is somehow directing supernatural power to change the natural order of things then, OK, I can see that there must be a price to pay. Anyway, we'll look at this during the development of the system.

By making the Philosophy of the Mutakallemim available first it'll give people a chance to look at the rationale that is behind the mechanics. Once the mechanics are released there's every chance that we'll all get lost in the detail. So I want people thinking about the Big Picture view before we get into the detail.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I am currently working on "Codex Martialis" with Jean Chandler (one of the TFoB authors). This is a 40-odd page supplement for d20 3.5 that brings tactical combat (as in, the TRoS combat style) to that game. The product is very close to completion -- sometime this month.

After that it will be full steam ahead with TGftP. Naturally I am keen to have others involved in the project. To get involved make a contribution to trosfans and you'll get access to the forum wherein the project downloads are available and discussion is being held.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
While Codex Martialis is not yet complete I have managed to put up the initial outline of the proposed mechanics. Naturally all feedback is appreciated and we need as wide a range of views as possible. At this stage I expect the next section of the mechanics to be posted to detail the Accidents.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:07 am
Posts: 953
Location: Melbourne, Australia
That's good news, I should be joinging the Supporters soon, I just have to organise a few more things with a mate of mine, we'll be purchasising the Core Rules this weekend I hope (We're playing Saturday and I don't have to GM WhooHoo!) and I'll slip the project some cash then...

Cheers & God Bless!

_________________
"It was hard-fought, a desperate affair that could have gone badly; if God had not helped me, the outcome would have been quick and fatal" (115) ~ Beowulf after defeating Grendle's Mother.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Crow Caller wrote:
That's good news, I should be joinging the Supporters soon...


Fantastic -- I look forward to your comments on the philosophy and the mechanics in the TGftP forum.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:32 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Wasilla, AK
Hello Ian,

I just wanted to let you know that I'll help with this as much as I can. I know we both worked on SatF together and I'm not sure in what direction you are wanting to take this project, but I would like to see something become available for fans as an improved alternative to the core sorcery rules.

I don't know how much this has already been worked on and I know you are getting assistance/input from Brian as well. What I gathered from your posts is that this magic concept is a bit different than your standard fantasy magic. Everything I have done is based more on popular fantasy concepts of divination, conjuration, abjuration, etc. so I don't know how much help I could supply. I'm not familiar with the book you mention so my input would probably be more limited to mechanics rather than concepts.

Garrion


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Garrion wrote:
I just wanted to let you know that I'll help with this as much as I can. I know we both worked on SatF together and I'm not sure in what direction you are wanting to take this project, but I would like to see something become available for fans as an improved alternative to the core sorcery rules.


Fantastic! Make a donation to the forum to get into the Supporters group. Then you'll see the TGftP forum and you can download the files. All feedback appreciated.

The envisaged system is, as you suspect, very different to standard fantasy systems (and pseudo-historical systems, and so on). Developing the system is as much a thought exercise as anything else. It asks the question, "If this view of the universe held by this specific medieval people was true, what would the magic system look like that was based on those laws of the universe?" The resulting system is idiosyncratic to say the least but the underlying mechanics can be used for a standard fantasy setting -- once the vagary-equivalents are changed to suit the different setting.

Anyway, I look forward to your feedback.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Guide for the Perplexed
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:09 pm
Posts: 1
I would love to get my hands on those files and contribute to this effort, but it seems as though the donation link is broken.

How can I get involved?

-G.W.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group              Designed by QuakeZone