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 Post subject: Re: Strength effects in the dice pool
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:41 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Iorwerth wrote:
Out of interest, do you use Duck&weave at TN9 or at TN8 (I believe there was an optional rule in one of the supplements to bring it down to TN8)?


For our group, we use TN 9 I think. It's been a while. The player can always expend Luck to flip Failures so its not such a big issue for us. I suspect we use more metagame than most groups as these TN issues don't seem to crop up as often as the level of discussion around the topic suggests occurs with other groups.

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 Post subject: Re: Strength effects in the dice pool
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:26 am 
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Been working on weapons values etc, and have a question. Do you think that, all other things being equal, if an unarmoured man is stabbed with a viking sword, an arming sword or a cut&thrust sword, the damage would be about the same? I have been thinking that perhaps the benefit of a cut&thrust sword over an arming sword would be that it is slightly better at getting through armour with a thrust, not that it would make an appreciable difference on the kind of wound it would give an unarmoured man (in tros it does str+1, so a whole wound level higher, as well as being better against hard armour, and I am not sure that is really the best way of simulating a cut&thrust sword over an arming sword or Viking sword). It also occured to me that perhaps a slightly more rounded point might actually inflict a slightly more vicious wound than a sharper point - in FOB when talking about Broad daggers and Pugios, it mentions that these weapons were often used because they caused worse wounds than a narrower, sharper blade would. In reality, a thinner, sharper weapon might be able to penetrate in further and so have an increased chance of piercing a vital, but these types of differences are not really modelled in TROS.

I would be interested in hearing your opinions on these matters to help me come to some decisions on my new weapon stats.


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 Post subject: Re: Strength effects in the dice pool
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:58 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Iorwerth wrote:
I would be interested in hearing your opinions on these matters to help me come to some decisions on my new weapon stats.


Are you going to stick with 5 wound levels?

How do you intend modeling wounds on non-human, non-bipedal opponents?

When there are only 5 wound levels the subtle nuances of weapons are lost. When only three TNs are viable, even broad nuances between weapons are largely lost.

I mean, in a sense, is there any difference between an Str + 4 weapon and an Str + 10 weapon? Not when there's only 5 wound levels, as both weapons are devastating. So, like the TNs, the range of base damages for weapons is quite limited.

It is an interesting one. It feels like the backbone of the TRoS combat system prevents too many detail layers being added.

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 Post subject: Re: Strength effects in the dice pool
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:45 pm 
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As to wound levels, at the moment I am working within them. I have come up with a system for shock and pain based upon Mos and location, but have not yet done it for BL (too difficult to get something that mirrors Tros damage at the moment).

The big jump in effect of wound levels is why I have been thinking that weapons should not have be differentiated so much by weapon strength effects, as each wound level is such a big jump. This is why I am thinking of moving away from damage modifers to distinguish weapons and more to a combination of how easy to use they are (TNs in Tros, dice and success modifiers in my mod) and, more importantly, how good they are against armour.

e.g. In the progression from Norse sword to Arming sword to Cut&thrust sword, it seems sensible to me that it was a product of armour as much as anything. So, as maille became more prevalent the thrusting potential of swords became more important, thus the sharper arming sword overtook the more rounded Norse sword. As Plate became more prevalent the more acutely pointed cut&thrust sword, with its greater armour pentration capability, became more popular. Obviously, it was more complicated than all that, but as a rough narrative it seems to have some sense to it. Thus in my new system is seemed to make sense that it was the armour penetration of the weapons that differentiated them, rather than the wounds done themselves. So, at the moment I am toying with the following:

Norse Sword - thrust TN6 / Dam:ST / -1 v all armour (perhaps just maille and above?)
Arming Sword - thrust TN6 / Dam:Str / no armour modifier
Cut&thrust Sword - thrust TN6 / Dam:ST / +1 v hard armour (perhaps all armours?)

Thus, when thrusting, the difference between the weapons is immaterial if you are thrusting against someone with no armour, but does become apparent when they are thrusting at an armoured opponent.

As to cutting, I am still unsure whether I want a similiar type of system, so that Norse and Arming Swords would be TN6/ Dam:Str / no armour mod, and a Cut&thrust sword being the same but with a -1 modifier v armour. Alternatively, it the Norse and Arming sword could get Dam:Str+1, and the Cut&Thrust sword only getting Str, and having no armour mods for any of the three. This is still in the deliberation stage, so haven't really decided yet what way I will go.


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