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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:53 am 
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Posts: 32
Thanks Moderator for fixing up my image :)

Uh oh, looks like I unleashed the beast :)

@higgins
higgins wrote:
Looking at the screenshot. "Using 4 dice + 2 dice for Stance. Total cost is 5 dice." That probably means you're using the target zone modifiers (-1 cost)? Any way to torn this option off in the interface? :)


That's probably just a bug. I didn't implement target zone modifiers.

higgins wrote:
And how come he recieved a wound with a MoS 0?


That was one of the points I was unsure about. I rechecked the MRB and you're right of course, it clearly states that "ties go to the attacker for purposes of initative". I already changed the code.
This is exactly what I'm gonna need in the first phase of public beta: people thoroughly reading thru the logfile and confirming everything works as it should.
Thanks :)

higgins wrote:
I also noticed that defence manouvers are grayed out for the aggressor. Are the attack manouvers also greyed out for the defender? They shouldn't be, as defender can attack in lieu of his defence. :)


Yeah, I found out about that the other night. The defender always has the option to attack, and he can additionally decide if he wants to try to steal initiative or just attack second. Is that correct?
It should be rather easy to implement, although at the moment I did not give combatants the option to add extra dice to ini stealing. Do you think we need this?

higgins wrote:
And I've got an idea... though I'm not sure how easy it would be to implement. What if the character sheets were .txt files and there was an option to save/record wounds? If someone wanted to use the simulator in his game, txt format would make the sheet easier to edit (if the character has healed between the sessions). Just load the wounded sheet to get the combat going.


I just finished saving and loading of characters into XML. It's readable, i'd say, and therefore should be editable to anyone who knows the basics of XML. Here's an example of how a wound looks in the XML-file:

Code:
  <wounds>
    <tros.battlesim.damage.Wound>
      <hitlocation>RIBCAGE</hitlocation>
      <woundLevel>5</woundLevel>
      <bloodLoss>9</bloodLoss>
      <shock>14</shock>
      <pain>11</pain>
      <text>Chest Lvl 5 Piercing: Pierced heart. Death is nearly instantaneous!</text>
      <rollKnockdown>true</rollKnockdown>
      <knockdownModifier>0</knockdownModifier>
      <rollKO>false</rollKO>
      <KOModifier>0</KOModifier>
      <rollDrop>false</rollDrop>
      <dropModifier>0</dropModifier>
      <instaKill>true</instaKill>
    </tros.battlesim.damage.Wound>
  </wounds>


If I gave out the specifications of what fields a wound is made up of, anyone can add or modify the XML. I could also add the options of creating wounds for characters in the pre-battle-setup.

@Squeejee
Squeejee wrote:
Yeshom wrote:
And also, if I gain initiative on a successful partial evasion automatically, why would I want to spend 2 CP to buy it?! I think I'm missing something here.


The way I understand it, if you partial evade you do not get initiative UNLESS you pay the 2 dice, which is probably because dodging allows the defender to keep all (or most) of his foreward momentum.


Ok, got it. Everyone, is this the way it's supposed to be? Then I'll implement it!

Squeejee wrote:
Yeshom wrote:
So that means he doesn't get to pick a maneuver? In case of being on defense, this probably means he can't defend against any attack thrown against him. What if he's on offense? Does the round end? Does initiative switch to the other combatant?


From what I know, an attacker has the options of yeilding initiative to the defender, or breaking off combat entirely. In this case, either one is viable for continuing the combat. If initiative is yielded and the new attacker ALSO cannot attack, then his only option should be to break off the combat, and initiative is re-thrown.


I need to recheck how I did that, but I'll fix it to make sure it works as you describe.

Squeejee wrote:
Also, are you planning to implement GIfts/Flaws into the Sim? If a character is raging or has accuracy, that should be taken into account. It would also be interesting to see prize plays implemented as an option.

Mounted combat would be

On the GUI: Looks good so far, I would suggest putting some basic DON'Ts" into the random AI to make it plausible. Maybe code a few tricks into its sleeve like attacking previously wounded areas. Also, I would put a couple tabs into the manuevers area, like attacks/defends/terrain rolls/others to keep it organized when you start filling in the rest of the CR+TFOB manuvers.

Final suggestion: A starting range of some sort that the attackers have to close would be nice, so if the combatants have crossbows they can take their shots before drawing swords. That could also allow for hazards to be put in relation to the combatants, like a sudden drop-off 20m behind fighter a or a wall 50m behind fighter b. I'm fairly sure the rules for the back-and-forth of combat are in TFOB, and they read something like A pushes back B 1m for every die in his MOS, unless he uses terrain dice to push.


Thanks for all the suggestions :)
As for now, my first priority is to get a version done that I can give out for testing to you guys. We first need to make sure I got all the basics right. As I said before, TROS Combat is a rather complicated affair when trying to cast it into rigid code, and my head is swimming a lot these days over many of the details.
Second priority is to get in all the maneuvers from MRB and possibly TFOB (still scared a lot by Winding&Binding and the whole grappling affair!).
Then I'll probably focus on making the thing playable by two human players, which I assume is more useful at first than a smarter AI. Some minor tweaking to the AI is possible, but serious AI coding is a bottomless pit, and I want to get the basics done first.

I don't mean to disappoint, but all the other things like the complicated Gifts (Accuracy), mounted Combat, terrain and missile combat are not going to happen in the near future. Unless, of course, someone knows solid Java and wants to help :)


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:24 am 
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Yeshom wrote:
higgins wrote:
And how come he recieved a wound with a MoS 0?

That was one of the points I was unsure about. I rechecked the MRB and you're right of course, it clearly states that "ties go to the attacker for purposes of initative".

It seemed that initiative seemed correct, it's just ties (MoS 0) shouldn't cause wounds. :)

Yeshom wrote:
higgins wrote:
I also noticed that defence manouvers are grayed out for the aggressor. Are the attack manouvers also greyed out for the defender? They shouldn't be, as defender can attack in lieu of his defence. :)

Yeah, I found out about that the other night. The defender always has the option to attack, and he can additionally decide if he wants to try to steal initiative or just attack second. Is that correct?
It should be rather easy to implement, although at the moment I did not give combatants the option to add extra dice to ini stealing. Do you think we need this?

All you said was correct. Extra dice for TN raise should be there (at least eventually).

Yeshom wrote:
I just finished saving and loading of characters into XML. It's readable

It is indeed readable. Looks good. :)

Yeshom wrote:
I could also add the options of creating wounds for characters in the pre-battle-setup.

That would be excellent!

Oh, and by the way... Will your sim be for Windows only, or can it also be ported over to mac?

_________________
"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."
- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Posts: 28
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Ooh, AWESOME!!!

I myself have on a few occasions even began writing code for my own simulator, but never had the enthusiasm to continue the next day. Well, I'm no programmer so getting started is tough, and it wouldn't get any easier with my SW design skills. Great that you have got this already this far!

Yeshom wrote:
The defender always has the option to attack, and he can additionally decide if he wants to try to steal initiative or just attack second. Is that correct?
It should be rather easy to implement, although at the moment I did not give combatants the option to add extra dice to ini stealing. Do you think we need this?

Correct.

Do I think we need [option to add extra dice to ini stealing]? Yes, definitely. To me, stealing initiative is one of the cornerstones in TROS combat. It is the only reason not to use all your dice in attack, if you have dice advantage. The only thing you have to worry about is for the defender to steal initiative and get an unopposed stike at you, before yours lands.

So it's crucial that the original defender can invest in the stealing attempt.

It's as crucial the original attacker either 1) is allowed to steal the init back if he loses (using core rules), or 2) is allowed to also spend dice in the "retain initiative" roll (using TFOB rules). This is the main reason why you might leave a few dice unspent in the first exchange -- to make stealing initiative too risky for the defender.

I think in a genuine red/red stealing initiative was not allowed. TFOB allows to spend dice in the red/red reflex roll to see who strikes first. I think I like this rule -- it tends to reward skill, while producing less lethal wounds (people commit less dice to the attack roll).


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:32 pm 
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Ok, just a short note:

I did more stuff, added terrain rolls for getting up (since I implemented knockdown, it would've been rather silly not to be able to get up again).
Die investing on ini stealing isn't in yet, but you can now create, save and load characters from the GUI, add them to a battle and have at it.

I'll try to fix up a version for release tomorrow, since I'll then be gone over the weekend until monday. I'll probably start a new thread in this forum for the release version to keep things clean.

@higgins
In theory, this thing should run on macs as well, since it is written entirely in Java 1.5, using SWT for the GUI. If my gf leaves her iBook at home tomorrow, I'll see if I can get it to run on that little bugger.

Don't get too excited though! Remember, this is still a very early version with just a couple of maneuvers, and you WILL run into bugs!

Night all,
Y


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:04 pm 
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Cool. Looking forward to seeing it.


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:34 pm 
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Yeshom wrote:
In theory, this thing should run on macs as well, since it is written entirely in Java 1.5, using SWT for the GUI. If my gf leaves her iBook at home tomorrow, I'll see if I can get it to run on that little bugger.

No hurry. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to release two different programs each time? Maybe it's best to stick to one platform until the bugs are out of the way? I was just asking because official TROS widgets have both mac and windows support (and because I'm gathering my guts for the Switch). :)

_________________
"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."
- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:50 pm 
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Java is half-compiled (into bytecode, which is quicker to interpret than normal java) and half-interpreted, which means that so long as nothing windows-specific has been used, it'll work on all platforms.


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Quick rules question:

I'm implementing feints. When activating a feint, do the range penalties apply to the cost? If yes, that means I pay them twice, once when declaring my cut, and the second time when I declare my feint after the opponent declared his defense.

Yesh


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:32 pm 
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No, I don't think you have to pay them twice, that doesn't make sense.

_________________
"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."
- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:48 am 
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If you wanted to release the code base, I'd be willing to look at it. I have very low opinions of my coding abilities, so I can't promise anything, but I've been working with Java 1.5 (and now 1.6) for about 3-4 years now.


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:39 pm 
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Another rules question, I'm implementing Beat this moment:

The rules say you can't use the beaten weapon for defense on the following exchange (MRB p.60), but could you use it to attack on the next exchange, if you stole initiative for example?


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:21 pm 
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Yeshom wrote:
The rules say you can't use the beaten weapon for defense on the following exchange (MRB p.60), but could you use it to attack on the next exchange, if you stole initiative for example?


No. The weapon has been made unavailable for the next exchange.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:04 pm 
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Another question:

Should a Cuirass protect the shoulders against a vertical (overhead) swing?


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:15 pm 
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Yeshom wrote:
Should a Cuirass protect the shoulders against a vertical (overhead) swing?


Technically no, practically yes. A curaiss protects the chest and back with straps over the shoulder -- so it doesn't of itself protect the shoulders. On the other hand it would be very unusual to be running around with just a curaiss -- pauldrons protect the shoulders and upper arm (in an articulated plate system) and would be worn with the curaiss.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


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 Post subject: Re: A new TROS Combat Sim..
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:32 am 
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Ok, but for the purpose of rules, a cuirass doesnt't give AV to the shoulders on overhead strikes, right? So I'll leave it like that...

Thanks!


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