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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:08 am 
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Maybe I can get a copy of the second edition that way...

My copy of the first edition arrived a couple of days ago, and I'm glad I spent the money. So long as they make more conversion guides (like the first edition said there'd be more of on the website), I'd like to see what is added/replaced with the second edition.

As to the first edition, the way things have been done is very similar to how TRoS works anyway. There are five wound levels (minor to mortal), with fairly graphic descriptions of what might cause that kind of wound and plenty of ideas as to what a given wound might do to the character beyond pain and bloodloss.

I have yet to see any bad things about the book, and it is fantastic for both fiction writing and for role playing in any system you care to role play with and convert the book for. To use the RPG.net system, I'd probably used 3 for style, because the style is very utilitarian, and 5 for substance because it does a lot right and very little wrong.

It gives a lot of details about what wounds to certain parts of the body might do, and goes into plenty of detail about wound infections and suchlike, but does so in a way that avoids slowing down combat; 90% of the rules in this book are designed to be applied once the fight has finished. I'd certainly use this book with GURPS and I'd probably use it with TRoS; regardless of the system, it's practically impossible to die from being kicked in the shin for your last hit point...


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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Claus wrote:
the second edition of Trauma is now available.

You can go to www.RadicalApproach.co.uk or here:
http://www.lulu.com/content/hardcover-b ... ma/1655036


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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:30 am 
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Any more details/reviews from those who bought the book? I am planning to buy the book but would prefer to wait until the PDF is ready—although it's looking like that may still take some time. If it's worth it, maybe I'll go for the printed version.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:40 am 
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I bought the first edition of the book, and it's fairly complete, not to mention being easy to translate over to TRoS due to its similar wound mechanics. Each part of the body receives a chapter explaining the various nasty things that can happen to that part of the body, and there's a collection of wound tables at the end. Given the information in those earlier chapters, however, it isn't too difficult to replace a table entry with something else that makes sense.

Unfortunately, the second edition doesn't have a conversion guide as a part of the book, though there may be a PDF of it out by now; I've not checked. If you're likely to use the book for tabletop gaming, you're best getting it printed. If not, a PDF would probably be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Daeruin wrote:
Any more details/reviews from those who bought the book?
Well, I admit I haven't read the book cover to cover but I've used it for giving wound descriptions once or twice. The book mainly consists of two main parts -- the main part and the tables. For the purposes of different wound locations and the specificness of wounds, TROS tables win hands down over Trauma. Foot, shin and lower leg, knee and nearby areas, thigh, hip, inner thigh are all "leg", but don't let that fool you, this only determines the hit location, which in turn references you back to the main part of the book. The text part gives informs you about the injury in question, meaning how vital this location is and how the body part functions while injured and at times even gives an expected after effect for the time the wound has healed. This is all very useful stuff, though I had to look up some of the anatomical terms from dictionary or to google them to get what they mean. Native speakers might not have that issue though. So, in addition to the detailed wound description (which can in turn, reference to other parts of the book for accompanying sub-injuries and so forth) the book also lists different ways of diagnosing and treating the wound, as well as the difficulties. Both diagnosing and treatment have four subsections: modern, medieval, futuristic and spell, which caters nicely to different settings.

What else do you want to know? If you come up with a specific question, I'll try to answer them, but as far as the generic description goes, I guess that's it. For me, the book was definitely "worth it".

I own both hardcover editions of the book (my 1st ed Trauma had a cosmetic defect and so I was sent a new book, which was 2nd ed), and I have to warn you that the currently available 2nd ed Trauma does NOT include the TROS or any other conversion notes. However, those conversion notes are now available on the Radical Approach web site for free, so, feel free to check them out as that should give a basic outline how (some of) the rules compare to TROS.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:38 pm 
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I'm mostly curious about the healing section. Playing in a low fantasy setting, I've always felt that wound healing has been neglected (at least in the systems I've played). I'm also interested in it from the perspective of a fiction writer. I'd like to know how detailed, realistic, and authentic are the descriptions of medieval healing methods.

I have already downloaded the conversion PDF. I've also downloaded the sample pages. Although the wound locations aren't as specific as TROS, the descriptions seem to be more detailed and varied. I like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Daeruin wrote:
I'm also interested in it from the perspective of a fiction writer.
That is indeed one of the advertised uses of the book in the introductory paragraph!

That said, there is no healing section per se. There is the main part and the tables. Tables are used to determine the location and severity of the injury and they reference to the main part for more details, which displays both the description and necessary healing options, and may additionally reference to further injuries and their respective healing options. I do NOT envy the editor of this book who had to make sure all this cross-referencing adds up! :)

In essence, what you see in the fragmented preview pdf, that's it. There's no in-depth section that educates you about medieval practices of handling different health problems nor the medical views of the time. Okay, there's about a page worth of text about medieval diagnosis, but that's mainly common sense -- that the King's physician has the most medical texts available and "theological diagnosis" being useless to actually harmful, etc. Basically you get a vivid description of the wound and its effects, and then the proper treatment. The modern/medieval/futuristic/spell section shows how difficult the proper treatment is to achieve using both the knowledge and general means in that setting.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Daeruin wrote:
I'm mostly curious about the healing section. Playing in a low fantasy setting, I've always felt that wound healing has been neglected (at least in the systems I've played). I'm also interested in it from the perspective of a fiction writer. I'd like to know how detailed, realistic, and authentic are the descriptions of medieval healing methods.


higgins wrote:
There's no in-depth section that educates you about medieval practices of handling different health problems nor the medical views of the time. Okay, there's about a page worth of text about medieval diagnosis, but that's mainly common sense -- that the King's physician has the most medical texts available and "theological diagnosis" being useless to actually harmful, etc. Basically you get a vivid description of the wound and its effects, and then the proper treatment. The modern/medieval/futuristic/spell section shows how difficult the proper treatment is to achieve using both the knowledge and general means in that setting.


My copy of Trauma arrived today. It is the worst supplement I have purchased since ... I actually can't think of a worse supplement I've purchased.

For me, this sums up the problem:

Medieval Diagnosis, Trauma, page 15Any diagnosis in a medieval or fantasy setting is likely to be dominated by religious beliefs, superstition and a lack of knowledge and understanding.

The lack of useful diagnostic instruments is only matched by the lack of knowledge. While the modern surgeon can discover a wealth of information before surgery a medieval surgeon does not have this luxury.


From this we discover that the author knows nothing more about medieval medical practices than the common man on the street. This is a great pity, and dooms the tome to the abyss that is the back of my games cupboard.

Am I being too harsh?

Medieval Surgery: Anaesthesia, Trauma, page 25Anaesthesia may not always be available and so the increased risk of shock...


Anaesthesia may not always be available? Compare this with the quote from page 15 regarding medieval diagnostic capacity.

Okay, let's skip the first 30 pages -- there's nothing useful for gamer or writer there -- and get to the section on Trauma. This is potentially useful. Armed with a genuine understanding of medieval medicine you could trawl through this section, remove all the anachronisms, re-do the treatments, and generate a list of those trauma that are not realistically treatable. Armed with the re-worked Trauma section you could tie this in with the TRoS/EoS wound location damage tables. It would be a lot of work.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:00 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
My copy of Trauma arrived today. It is the worst supplement I have purchased since ... I actually can't think of a worse supplement I've purchased.

For me, this sums up the problem:

Medieval Diagnosis, Trauma, page 15Any diagnosis in a medieval or fantasy setting is likely to be dominated by religious beliefs, superstition and a lack of knowledge and understanding.

The lack of useful diagnostic instruments is only matched by the lack of knowledge. While the modern surgeon can discover a wealth of information before surgery a medieval surgeon does not have this luxury.

From this we discover that the author knows nothing more about medieval medical practices than the common man on the street. This is a great pity, and dooms the tome to the abyss that is the back of my games cupboard.
From the actual diagnose panels (as opposed to the introductory text), we find that most (proper) medieval diagnosis is done through physical examination. I'd like to ask what else would you expect until the late eighteen hundreds? All I see in those two quoted p. 15 paragraphs is the author encouraging the referee to have more religious/mystical healers in the setting than in the world today, and explaining that people of the time would more likely to be susceptible to accept treatments (such as bleeding, balancing of humours, prayer) which most (sane) modern people would reject in favour of licensed medicine.

Ian.Plumb wrote:
Medieval Surgery: Anaesthesia, Trauma, page 25Anaesthesia may not always be available and so the increased risk of shock...

Anaesthesia may not always be available? Compare this with the quote from page 15 regarding medieval diagnostic capacity.
Sorry, but what on Earth has blacking your patient out to do with diagnosis? I think that even in stone age it was clear that it's easier to cut something that isn't kicking and screaming while you do it. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:13 am 
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Bummer. I had high hopes for this one. I might still buy it for the wound descriptions, though.

Anybody have recommendations for information on medieval or ancient healing methods?

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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:30 am 
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Daeruin wrote:
Anybody have recommendations for information on medieval or ancient healing methods?


I split this topic when it moved towards how healing should be handled in EoS.



In the first post is a list of the names I would use for research in creating a medieval healing treatise.

You can find e-books of translations of Hippocrates works and Galens and I'm sure some of the others. I intend trying to find academic pieces in journals on this subject and try and work from those.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Apologies
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Thanks for pointing that out, Ian. I saw the new thread on healing, but it expanded so quickly, I knew I wouldn't have time to follow it. I've read the first page and a half of posts on that topic now. Thanks for the references in your first post.

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