It is currently Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:47 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:00 am
Posts: 511
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Hi Folks,

I would like to get an idea about what kind (if any) alternate magic systems you guys are using as a substitute for the "scientific" system of the Core Rules. I myself use a home brewed system involving a variation on the classic elements and humors. Just curious as to what the community is doing in the absence of SATF.

Regards,

PJ

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:07 am
Posts: 953
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hey PJ, my own gorups does verious things depending on what type of game we are running.

I find that Ian.Plumb's Primitive Talent system is a good and strong system, it is also very easy to adapt and change the power level, you simply make up a spell and depending on the power level of the game assign it a TN. Spells are never learnt but rather discovered. So the player can simply say, "I want to create and area of cold so that anyone who enters freezes" then you can say okay that is a TN X or what ever.

Another thing we use (quite alot) is we take the various Powers from World of Darkness and let people take each rank (DOT) at the price of a Major Gift. Usually there is a prereq such as being a Gifted Human or a Vamp or whatever. It works well because Casters can't start too powerful, or if they do they must sacrifice ALOT in other areas, and then the development is also slow (20 SA's to gain 1 dot).

Hope this helps.

Cheers & God Bless!

_________________
"It was hard-fought, a desperate affair that could have gone badly; if God had not helped me, the outcome would have been quick and fatal" (115) ~ Beowulf after defeating Grendle's Mother.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:00 am
Posts: 511
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Hey Crow Caller!

Yep, you are working with some good ideas!

I was also inspired by Ian's Primitive Talents write-up when I read it some time ago, and so was inspired to write my own magic system for TROS. I think beyond the general process of rolling up a magic oriented character, it takes off in a different direction. As best I can remember, the only things left over from the old TROS system is a modified variables chart (used to help calculate the TN of a spell) and a few attribute checks. I did not port over aging into the new system but use a different mechanism instead. When working with a player to calculate a TN, has that gone well so far?

PJ

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I find that -- of all the basic mechanics of an RPG -- the magic system is most setting-specific. If you port the same magic system into different environments without tailoring then there will be a definite sameness for all the magic-using characters to the environments.

There are two things that I do not like about Core magic from a mechanics-perspective. It is too powerful. It doesn't interact with the combat system. If I was going to be picky then I'd add a third from a philosophy-perspective -- the way magic can heal. In my own games, I rule that out because it is one of the things that wizards have trouble explaining when asked "Is magic good?"

If you have something in electronic form I am happy to edit it and add it to the available downloads here in trosfans.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:00 am
Posts: 511
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Hi Ian,

"I find that -- of all the basic mechanics of an RPG -- the magic system is most setting-specific. If you port the same magic system into different environments without tailoring then there will be a definite sameness for all the magic-using characters to the environments."

I absolutely agree and would go a bit further with the notion that what I think may be a very nice system of magic might be dull or silly to another GM.

My "system" is a rather cobbled together affair (I am an indifferent writer at best) from many sources/inspirations and is divided into four "Books" for subject and size considerations, with each of the four word documents about 1.5 MB in size. I would prefer a private evaluation by you of the initial section before being tossed to the mob... :cry:

So, just let me know your email address and I will send the initial chapter to you as an attached file named "Elemental Magic".

Regards,

PJ

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:31 am
Posts: 251
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, US
A couple of years ago I started a homebrew revision of the core magic rules, but never finished it. The basic idea was that I wanted to simplify the TN calculation and make the vagary categories more logical. I'm not sure I accomplished either of those goals, but I liked the ideas I came up with. I also wanted to make the power level of the vagaries more granular. I think I split them into five levels instead of three.

After revising the vagary categories into something I felt made more sense, I went through each category and figured out which variables applied to that category. For example, size doesn't apply to mental vagaries, but the number of targets does. For each vagary, I identified a prime variable--the one that seemed most integral to what the vagary does. That variable sets the TN. Each other variable has a base effect. In order to accomplish more powerful effects, you have to spend successes on them. One of the consequences of this setup is that you can no longer combine vagaries to create spells. But I never really saw much benefit of that, anyway. Most of the examples in the rule book seemed forced to me.

So that's the mechanical aspect, which I never fully fleshed out. I'm not very good at figuring statistics and assigning numbers to stuff, and it would have taken me a lot of playtesting to figure out. I like the idea behind what I was doing, because it made spell creation a little more risky and tactical. You can never be exactly sure how many successes you will get and hence how powerful you can make the spell. If you get fewer successes than you anticipated, you have to figure out which variables to spend them on to get the most bang for your buck. That might be cool to some people and not cool to others.

The flavor aspect remained fairly similar to the scientific feel of the core rules, but I borrowed heavily from Ars Magica in setting the power levels of the variables. I really like Ars Magica's common sense definitions for variables like time, volume, and number. It makes things so much easier to figure out. The last thing I want to do is bring the game to a grinding halt for half an hour while trying to do a bunch of calculations to create a spell.

_________________
Ben
My blog: fantasy fiction, gaming, and progressive metal


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:00 am
Posts: 511
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Hi Daeruin,

Actually, what you've worked on sounds interesting to me as well! I would love a scenario where TROSFANS had five or six different magic systems available for download! :o

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 2035
Location: Estonia
Daeruin wrote:
One of the consequences of this setup is that you can no longer combine vagaries to create spells. But I never really saw much benefit of that, anyway. Most of the examples in the rule book seemed forced to me.
Very interesting... That's how I always felt too. Combining stuff makes things too difficult. Who would have thought you need Conquer for a healing spell? Not me, that's for sure. So, in essence, I'd love to see your stuff. :)

_________________
"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."
- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
pbj44 wrote:
So, just let me know your email address and I will send the initial chapter to you as an attached file named "Elemental Magic".


Just click the Email button below and you're there!

I look forward to seeing it. I am happy to edit the doc(s) and return to you for proofing before we expose your system to the wider world. ;)

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:43 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Daeruin wrote:
One of the consequences of this setup is that you can no longer combine vagaries to create spells. But I never really saw much benefit of that, anyway. Most of the examples in the rule book seemed forced to me.


higgins wrote:
Very interesting... That's how I always felt too. Combining stuff makes things too difficult. Who would have thought you need Conquer for a healing spell? Not me, that's for sure. So, in essence, I'd love to see your stuff. :)


As always, happy to have additional material on the boards. If you want it edited happy to do that. Even if it is incomplete, we could have a thread dedicated to completing it and get input from those interested.

Regards,

_________________
Ian Plumb
Illustrations for Gamers
Lyonpaedia
Griffin Grove Gaming
Kraftworks for Kids School Holiday Program


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:31 am
Posts: 251
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, US
Ian.Plumb wrote:
As always, happy to have additional material on the boards. If you want it edited happy to do that. Even if it is incomplete, we could have a thread dedicated to completing it and get input from those interested.


I had a look at my notes. Unfortunately, my latest draft was essentially starting from scratch. I had taken things in a bad direction and needed to get away from the old ideas. The latest draft is just a couple of pages of rough outlining. And most importantly--I just won't have time. I'd still love to finish this project one day, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

_________________
Ben
My blog: fantasy fiction, gaming, and progressive metal


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:07 am
Posts: 953
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I'm a long way from creating my own Spell System, however if I was going to make one, I think it would go away from the "scientific" feel. It's hard to explain... but I feel it should come from the gut, or soul of the caster and should be... raw.

I would aim to create a system that feels immensly powerful to the caster, without it actually having to be overly powerful in terms of damage or effect. Does this make sense to anyone?

Basically it would be a theme based system designed to promote feeling.

*Shrugs* Like I said I'm a long way from creating my own system, but if anyone has anything like this then I'd love to see it!

Cheers & God Bless!

_________________
"It was hard-fought, a desperate affair that could have gone badly; if God had not helped me, the outcome would have been quick and fatal" (115) ~ Beowulf after defeating Grendle's Mother.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:06 am
Posts: 1495
Location: Vienna, Austria, Europe
I totally agree that magic-systems are very setting-specific, and as my group does usually create a new setting for every new campaign, this does mean creatin a new magic system every time the world has magic in it and the players will encounter it. Which in turn means that the system I design are often quite simple.

One that I am liking in spades has ben made by me by simply writing either good or bad predictions from horoscopes in magazines onto index cards. I have now got several stacks of cards, one termed “Social, beneficial”, another “Social, detrimental”, another “Good Fortune” and another “Misfortune”. When somebody casts a spell, he indicates a stack and draws a card from it, and then we apply the sentence on it to the situation. If a card was drawn form the “Social, detrimental” stack reading “Make sure you’re not taking everything at face value today – there’s a lot more going on than you realize” we might for instance decide that the victim of the spell is betrayed by a friend.

It’s an easy and fast system, but it is limited to mostly subtle curse- and benediction-type magic. So no fireballs or invisibility here, but it is just great for “hidden magic” or “subtle magic” settings.

_________________
My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Magic systems used
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:12 pm
Posts: 67
That sounds fun, and is a bit similar to what I did for my campaign which has magic based more on folklore rather than ka-boom RPG battle magic. More or less the basic TROS mechanics are used but there are only 7 vagaries: summoning and banishment are essentially the same, but the others are Cursing, Curing, Desire (love spells) Divination and Flight (astral projection) and there's also a sect of sorcerers who have an eighth vagary which lets them do "Shaolin monk" kinds of things.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group              Designed by QuakeZone