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 Post subject: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:20 pm 
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Ian,
You are doing a great job. It really add a "medieval flavour" to the magic system. Maybe using french words also helps.

Using Malefique linked to the racial priority makes sense. It helps to give a meaning to racial priority in a setting without elves or other fantasy races. I understand that you are creating the system to simulate a western medieval low fantasy setting (pretty much like the one you are designing for southern medeival france, isn't it?).
I would be glad if I could read some descriptions about what accidents are. I assume they will be something like the core book vagaries, right?

Although it makes sense that de duration of every spell will be permanent following the guide for the perplexed, there are effects that would be very weird to make permanent as the default option. For example, if it would be possible to let a man to fly, it would be weird that once you have recieved this spell, you could allways fly. Maybe some kind of effects, generally those that gives unnatural physical propieties to human bodies, would be limmited. For example: you just couldn't give the faculty to fly at will, but instead you could make wings grow to a human to fly. This second change well could be permanent, not just the abbility to levitate.

I feel that Target TN Modifier should be expanded. I'm not sure if it would depend on the natural realm it belongs to (animal, vegetal, mineral, spiritual...) or something totally different as the level of conscience of target.

You really hitted with your Range modifiers. Contextual instead of numerical!. Great!

Maybe we could think about the same method for the Volume moddifier. Instead of "up to Malefique square feet", something like "as big as a great animal like an elephant"?

Go on, Ian! You are making our brains works! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:42 am 
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Alan_Agil wrote:
You are doing a great job. It really add a "medieval flavour" to the magic system. Maybe using french words also helps.


Oh my goodness. Somebody has read the draft rules! I don't know what to say! I don't know what to do!!

OK, my initial excitement has passed...

Alan_Agil wrote:
Using Malefique linked to the racial priority makes sense. It helps to give a meaning to racial priority in a setting without elves or other fantasy races.


Yes, that is the design intent. Magic is inherently powerful whatever the setting. As such players need to specify where on the scale their character sits.

Alan_Agil wrote:
I understand that you are creating the system to simulate a western medieval low fantasy setting (pretty much like the one you are designing for southern medeival france, isn't it?).


Yes, that is true. It is a somewhat self-serving exercise I freely admit. ;)

Malefique is a component of the magic system, for sure, but it is bigger than that. Making it part of the Priorities at character creation indicates it is a major consideration for the player. It governs the character's capacity to manipulate magic, for sure. Yet it represents their level of corruption. In the Spiritual Rules (the opposite to the Magical Rules), Malefique represents the character's capacity to resist temptation. The lower the character's Malefique the greater the capacity to resist Temptation. From the Spiritual perspective, magic wielding is a manifestation of Pride. This however is unrelated to the Philosophy of the Mutakallemim.

Alan_Agil wrote:
I would be glad if I could read some descriptions about what accidents are. I assume they will be something like the core book vagaries, right?


Broadly speaking the Accidents are opposites and usually of a physical nature. One Accident might be warm/cool. Another might be moving/stationery. Another might be transparent/opaque. Another light/heavy. Another life/death. Another free will/automaton. Another colour/black. Another wisdom/folly.

There are literally dozens of Accidents. A sorcerer can only master a handful. As a result sorcerors, when encountered, will be largely unique. The chances of encountering two that have control of similar Accidents is remote.

Alan_Agil wrote:
Although it makes sense that de duration of every spell will be permanent following the guide for the perplexed, there are effects that would be very weird to make permanent as the default option. For example, if it would be possible to let a man to fly, it would be weird that once you have recieved this spell, you could allways fly. Maybe some kind of effects, generally those that gives unnatural physical propieties to human bodies, would be limmited. For example: you just couldn't give the faculty to fly at will, but instead you could make wings grow to a human to fly. This second change well could be permanent, not just the abbility to levitate.


I see what you are saying. That would be one approach. The one I prefer myself is any spell effect is permanent and must be consciously undone in order to revert an object to its original, God-given Accidental properties. For the Sorcerer this is straightforward -- the original spell is cast in reverse, undoing the work of the original spell.

Alan_Agil wrote:
I feel that Target TN Modifier should be expanded. I'm not sure if it would depend on the natural realm it belongs to (animal, vegetal, mineral, spiritual...) or something totally different as the level of conscience of target.


There are six parameters involved in calculating the Spell TN. You *really* want more options in the Target parameter? :shock:

Actually the reason there is only the one yes/no in this parameter is the presence of a soul. It is inherently difficult to change something with a soul -- that is, a person.

Feel free though to add more options!

Alan_Agil wrote:
You really hitted with your Range modifiers. Contextual instead of numerical!. Great!


Thanks. I like the idea. There will be more options in this parameter -- just needs others to have a think about what is needed, particularly in relation to time ranges.

Alan_Agil wrote:
Maybe we could think about the same method for the Volume moddifier. Instead of "up to Malefique square feet", something like "as big as a great animal like an elephant"?


I want the Volume parameter to get bigger as a Sorcerer becomes more powerful (as measured by increased Malefique). However, this isn't to say that the Volume parameter couldn't also be contextual.

Many thanks for your feedback -- much appreciated.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:17 am 
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Alan_Agil wrote:
Although it makes sense that the duration of every spell will be permanent following the guide for the perplexed, there are effects that would be very weird to make permanent as the default option. For example, if it would be possible to let a man to fly, it would be weird that once you have received this spell, you could always fly. Maybe some kind of effects, generally those that gives unnatural physical properties to human bodies, would be limited. For example: you just couldn't give the faculty to fly at will, but instead you could make wings grow to a human to fly. This second change well could be permanent, not just the ability to levitate.


I just wanted to return to this. Some things won't be Accidents. An Accident of Fly/Earthbound makes less sense to me than one of Wings/Earthbound. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that the Mutakallemim might have seen flying that didn't have wings. Clouds perhaps? Thrown objects? I guess they're not really flying.

The Accidents should be explicable according to medieval understanding and thought.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:38 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
There are literally dozens of Accidents. A sorcerer can only master a handful. As a result sorcerors, when encountered, will be largely unique. The chances of encountering two that have control of similar Accidents is remote.


Wow! That is a great idea, Ian! It helps to spice the setting with a flavor of impredictability. Magic, for the magic-users could be somehow understood, bu for other people is still a mistery. In other systems wizards are a kind of "spell-storages". If you rarely could find two mages using the same powers or the same way to access to magic, it will be a challenge each time you met a wich. You even did not know what she is capable of doing. In basic TROS, each time your PC encounter a Sorcerer, they know that he can do almost everything in a god-like exhibition of power.


Ian.Plumb wrote:
I see what you are saying. That would be one approach. The one I prefer myself is any spell effect is permanent and must be consciously undone in order to revert an object to its original, God-given Accidental properties. For the Sorcerer this is straightforward -- the original spell is cast in reverse, undoing the work of the original spell.


I see what you mean.

Ian.Plumb wrote:

Alan_Agil wrote:
Maybe we could think about the same method for the Volume moddifier. Instead of "up to Malefique square feet", something like "as big as a great animal like an elephant"?


I want the Volume parameter to get bigger as a Sorcerer becomes more powerful (as measured by increased Malefique). However, this isn't to say that the Volume parameter couldn't also be contextual.

Many thanks for your feedback -- much appreciated.

Regards,


Oh! Just the Volume parameter? I cannot understand why only Volume would be affected by Malefique and not the Range one. I'm sure you have a reason.

Ian.Plumb wrote:
Alan_Agil wrote:
Although it makes sense that the duration of every spell will be permanent following the guide for the perplexed, there are effects that would be very weird to make permanent as the default option. For example, if it would be possible to let a man to fly, it would be weird that once you have received this spell, you could always fly. Maybe some kind of effects, generally those that gives unnatural physical properties to human bodies, would be limited. For example: you just couldn't give the faculty to fly at will, but instead you could make wings grow to a human to fly. This second change well could be permanent, not just the ability to levitate.


I just wanted to return to this. Some things won't be Accidents. An Accident of Fly/Earthbound makes less sense to me than one of Wings/Earthbound. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that the Mutakallemim might have seen flying that didn't have wings. Clouds perhaps? Thrown objects? I guess they're not really flying.

The Accidents should be explicable according to medieval understanding and thought.


Ok. That is! For us, XXIth century people, physics and chemistry are well known. But in the western middle ages, flying was an aspect allways associated with wings (birds, angels, demons and even dragons all had wings in their depictings). They understood action-reaction, so thrown objects were not flying but "throwed". IMO, if someone would have to achieve the capability to fly, for a western middle age mentality, should be using wings. In the arabic middle ages, they DO believed in things flying without wings (genies, magic carpets,...) but I'm unsure when this myths reached western Europe. "1001 nights" didn't reach wester Europe until XIXth century.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:05 am 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
There are literally dozens of Accidents. A sorcerer can only master a handful. As a result sorcerors, when encountered, will be largely unique. The chances of encountering two that have control of similar Accidents is remote.


Alan_Agil wrote:
Wow! That is a great idea, Ian! It helps to spice the setting with a flavor of impredictability. Magic, for the magic-users could be somehow understood, bu for other people is still a mistery. In other systems wizards are a kind of "spell-storages". If you rarely could find two mages using the same powers or the same way to access to magic, it will be a challenge each time you met a wich. You even did not know what she is capable of doing. In basic TROS, each time your PC encounter a Sorcerer, they know that he can do almost everything in a god-like exhibition of power.


For me, as a player, there's nothing worse in a magic system than predictability. Predictability is the very opposite of the mystery it should provide to the gaming environment. I spent a lot of years playing a game called Chivalry and Sorcery. It went into inordinate amounts of detail regarding how the different kinds of magic users cast their spells. And there were many different kinds of spell casters -- hex masters, thaumaturges, power word, primitive talent, on and on. But they all had access to the same spell lists, with exclusivity in particular spell lists only occurring at inordinately high levels. The question that should be asked of such a system is what is the point of all the detail if they all produce the same magical effects?

I want a magic system where magic users are as mysterious as the effects they produce.

I also want a magic system which has a strategic element. The TRoS combat system is excellent. The players have to make tricky decisions in combat regarding the manoeuvres that their characters perform. The Core magic system is not like that. The player has to manage their dice allocations, to avoid aging, but otherwise they can lay waste to whole neighbourhoods. Is there really a need to be tactical with such power at their disposal? I don't think so.

By having many Accidents the player is immediately confronted with a choice at character creation. Develop several to a high degree, develop many to a low degree, or some combination? If so, which -- developing many to a low degree would still only give the character access to perhaps a third of the available Accidents. Once selected the player needs to work out some set combinations of Accidents that can be applied routinely -- in other words formularising or ritualising certain combinations to make them easier to cast reliably.

Ian.Plumb wrote:
I want the Volume parameter to get bigger as a Sorcerer becomes more powerful (as measured by increased Malefique). However, this isn't to say that the Volume parameter couldn't also be contextual.


Alan_Agil wrote:
Oh! Just the Volume parameter? I cannot understand why only Volume would be affected by Malefique and not the Range one. I'm sure you have a reason.


If TRoS had a tactical combat environment (that is, used minis/figs and a Simmy movement system rather than the abstracted Terrain roll) than range would be an important part of combat -- and therefor magic. In those circumstances I'd have Range modified by the developing Malefique. Range in TRoS though is not a precise thing.

Ian.Plumb wrote:
I just wanted to return to this. Some things won't be Accidents. An Accident of Fly/Earthbound makes less sense to me than one of Wings/Earthbound. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that the Mutakallemim might have seen flying that didn't have wings. Clouds perhaps? Thrown objects? I guess they're not really flying.

The Accidents should be explicable according to medieval understanding and thought.


Alan_Agil wrote:
Ok. That is! For us, XXIth century people, physics and chemistry are well known. But in the western middle ages, flying was an aspect allways associated with wings (birds, angels, demons and even dragons all had wings in their depictings). They understood action-reaction, so thrown objects were not flying but "throwed". IMO, if someone would have to achieve the capability to fly, for a western middle age mentality, should be using wings. In the arabic middle ages, they DO believed in things flying without wings (genies, magic carpets,...) but I'm unsure when this myths reached western Europe. "1001 nights" didn't reach wester Europe until XIXth century.


Hmmm ... so those cunning Mohammedans have cracked the secret of the Flying Carpet/Nice Rug Accident? :P

It makes sense to have culture-specific Accidents. For example, which cultures have were-creatures in their Lore? And many other similar concepts.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:44 am 
Hi Ian

As I mentioned in another post I know this project has slowed down but I'm actually really getting interested in this so I thought I'd better say something and see if we can't get people interested again.

First of all I do have difficulty using the word "Accidents". I apologise if I'm the only one on this but if we're trying to say opposite, and we're using French words, how about using Antithèse instead? As a former bus driver the word "accident" just conjures the wrong images ;)

I'm also one of the people that's not entirely comfortable with making the duration of all spells permanent until undone - personally I think this should be a seperate element that also has to be calculated in to the TN - maybe as an additional parameter (I know, why would we want any more parameters?).

Would this system be able to cover such aspects as potions and enchantments as well?

BTW - I like the initial ideas but I'd really like to see this project develop and more people showing an interest.

For what it's worth I've been reading "The Dresden Files" and I've gotten completely hooked on magic again :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Well, Ian, over at the old TroS-forum you’ve recently written that the Guide could easily be revived with some interest in it, so here I go....

I do basically like the idea of all magical effects being permanent, as this is different from other systems, but I don’t think it holds up in view of the Propositions, especially the Sixth.

Unlike atoms, accidents do not exist in the space between one time atom and the next; they are actively renewed by God with every new time atom, and should he ever cease to do so the atom devoid of accident would cease to exist. A mage’s spell does now change the accident(s) of a certain number of atoms – but the new accident(s) will only exist for an infinitesimally small span of time, for a single time atom. At the end of this time atom, all accidents of all atoms in the entire universe cease to exist and at the beginning of the next time atom, God actively creates new accidents.

If a spell effect has to have a duration of more than single time atom, the magic would have to entice or even force God to renew the new, magically changed/created accident(s) instead of the original accident(s). Which is a tough proposition.

Philosophically, one could say that it is not God himself who constantly toils to sustain Creation, but a legion of his angels, and that what magic really does is to either force or trick an angel to create and then renew one or several accidents of the mage’s choice; thus, magic would not force God, but an angel, which is less problematic.

But permanency of magical effects does also not follow automatically. No matter wether an angel is forced or befuddled, it is equally conceivable that this state lasts either for ever or only for a certain span of time, until the angel either breaks free from the spell or notices the magical deception and does again return to recreating the former, pre-magic accident, presumably in accordance with God's will.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Thinking magic through more thoroughly, I happen upon further problems:

The Mutakallemim do completely deny all causality. The atoms of a piece of cloth do not take on the colour-accident of the atoms of the dye touching them; it is God who choses to give them a new colour-accident. The pen does not move across the paper because the atoms of the hand impart movement-accident to its atoms; it is God who choses to give the pen’s atoms the movement-accident.

By this philosophy, man can effect nothing; everything is done by God, even the very will to act in a certain way is an accident imparted by God and recreated with every new time atom. But the will is inconsequential anyhow – no accident can ever by the cause of another, and the will to act in a certain way has nothing whatsoever to do with the movement of the body carrying out that action. This movement is an accident created by God and does in no way follow the will to move. In a very real sense, man is God’s puppet, having from moment to moment only what will he is given and moving only in the way he is moved. Causality does not exist. All is as God wills it, and chains of cause and effect are merely mimiced by God, possibly to allow human intellect to make some sense of the world.

This is very problematic. If no accident can ever be the cause of another accident and will is in itself an accident (as stated under the Sixth Proposition), the will to do magic, or with other words, the will to change accidents, can never actually lead to accidents being effected. It is not the magic that creates the magical effect, but God creating accidents in accordance with the magician’s will. This will and its content are again accidents created by God, and created in such a way that the magician is given a belief-accident that the magic he is going to do is going to change the world into a state it would not have if left to God’s devices. Magic is thus things happening in accordance with God’s designs, but with the added illusion that they are happening contrary to his designs.

Hm. There might be a flaw in my reasoning, or a knot in my brain.

The basic question is wether one would like to build a magic system on will being not free but imparted and actions never having any consequences. The spiritual implications are grave.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:37 am 
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Grettir wrote:
Thinking magic through more thoroughly, I happen upon further problems


Keep in in mind that the Mutakallemim do not have to understand everything completely. It is OK if they have an imperfect understanding of the universe. However, they can't be completely wrong or else there is no point codifying their beliefs into mechanics.

Grettir wrote:
The Mutakallemim do completely deny all causality. The atoms of a piece of cloth do not take on the colour-accident of the atoms of the dye touching them; it is God who choses to give them a new colour-accident.


So, if the Mutakallemim weren't quite right, what about if there existed an accident regarding Staining? In a sense the Mutakallemim would be right in that the dye does not cause the fabric to change colour. Rather, the fabric has an accident regarding whether it can be stained or not. Thus the fabric can by dyed because God envisaged that it would need to be dyed.

Grettir wrote:
The pen does not move across the paper because the atoms of the hand impart movement-accident to its atoms; it is God who choses to give the pen’s atoms the movement-accident.


The hand has a Movable accident. The pen has a Movable accident. This doesn't preclude either from being motionless. The hand does not transfer an accident to the pen. Rather, the hand moves the pen within or via the accidents that already exist.

Grettir wrote:
By this philosophy, man can effect nothing; everything is done by God, even the very will to act in a certain way is an accident imparted by God and recreated with every new time atom.


I wouldn't get caught up with the creation/destruction of everything with each passing time atom. It doesn't affect anything -- it isn't observable, its influence or existence isn't testable. As such it is very much in the realms of philosophy.

Keeping in mind that the Mutakallemim understanding of things may be incomplete, willpower or self-determination may well be an accident attributed to something by God. The fact that the accident is there doesn't mean that God is controlling the actions of the creature, only that He created the accident of willpower and assigned it to the creature.

I also wouldn't get caught up in causality. What Maimonides understands or means by causality is different from our own view. Maimonides, in saying that the Mutakallemim do not accept causality, means that they do not accept that the hand throwing the rock is imparting motion to the rock. Rather, the Mutakallemim believe that the rock has an array of accidents -- say Movable, Speed, Direction -- that govern where the thrown rock ends up. If the rock did not have these accidents the hand would not be able to throw the rock.

Grettir wrote:
This is very problematic. If no accident can ever be the cause of another accident and will is in itself an accident (as stated under the Sixth Proposition), the will to do magic, or with other words, the will to change accidents, can never actually lead to accidents being effected. It is not the magic that creates the magical effect, but God creating accidents in accordance with the magician’s will.


This assumes that magic is part of the natural order. I'm happy with the idea that magic is supernatural, and man's capacity to wield magic is part of what differentiates him from all other creatures. In this sense man is created in God's image -- that he is part spirit, created with the capability to transcend the natural order.

Grettir wrote:
The basic question is wether one would like to build a magic system on will being not free but imparted and actions never having any consequences. The spiritual implications are grave.


I don't think having an accident of free will means that God then directs every aspect of the decisions taken under free will -- that's kind of self-contradicting. I also don't see the Mutakallemim's non acceptance of Maimonides' view on causality as meaning that actions do not have consequences.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:39 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
Keep in in mind that the Mutakallemim do not have to understand everything completely. It is OK if they have an imperfect understanding of the universe. However, they can't be completely wrong or else there is no point codifying their beliefs into mechanics.

Yes, but for designers it is necessary to know where the Mutakallemim are right and where they are wrong.

Ian.Plumb wrote:
The hand has a Movable accident. The pen has a Movable accident. This doesn't preclude either from being motionless. The hand does not transfer an accident to the pen. Rather, the hand moves the pen within or via the accidents that already exist.

It’s not the moveable/unmoveable accident that concerns me, but the moving/stationary accident. How does the pen go from one to the other? Not because one is imparted from the hand’s atoms to the pen’s (this being impossible), but solely because God choses to give the pen’s atoms suddenly the moving accident, and not anymore the stationary aspect that he has given them in previous time-atoms.

The consequence is quite clearly that everything that happens is in the truest sense of the word an act of God. This is evidenced in Maimonides’ commentary on the Sixth Proposition

Ian.Plumb wrote:
I don't think having an accident of free will means that God then directs every aspect of the decisions taken under free will….

But that’s exactly what the Sixth Proposition suggests – see the top of p.9: “….when the pen is set in motion, God has created four accidents, none of which is the cause of any of the rest, they are only related to each other as regards the time of their co-existence and have no other relation to ech other. The first accident is man’s will to move the pen,…”

Note that man’s will to move the pen, is an accident created by God, and that it’s only relation to the subsequent movement of the arm and pen is is one of temporal co-existence; nothing else connects one with the other. It’s not man who takes an action, but God; indeed, the entire resolve to act in a certain way is created by God.

Ian.Plumb wrote:
I'm happy with the idea that magic is supernatural, and man's capacity to wield magic is part of what differentiates him from all other creatures.

See, I’m perfectly happy with your notion of will being free and of magic being man ursurping God’s prerogative of being the only one who effects anything; this was indeed whereto I wanted to get myself.

I think that we need the additional assumptions that:

1) Will is somehow free. Maybe it should be related to Soul (maybe even equalled) and said not to be an accident, but something unfathomable. Which would of course also do away with all magical coercion and subdal of will.

2) God has a host of angels at work constantly recreating the accidents of the world, including efecting all changes to the world seemingly enacted by man’s actions.

3) Magicians have learned to enslave or trick these angels into creating accidents; without something along these lines, the acidents created by magic would only last for one time-atom (see my first post).

This third point would also make magiv intrinsically blasphemous, and tantamount to usurping God’s prerogatives and upsettin his designs for the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:33 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
Keep in in mind that the Mutakallemim do not have to understand everything completely. It is OK if they have an imperfect understanding of the universe. However, they can't be completely wrong or else there is no point codifying their beliefs into mechanics.


Grettir wrote:
Yes, but for designers it is necessary to know where the Mutakallemim are right and where they are wrong.


OK, so list what needs to be thrown out to make it workable.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedback on Malefique, Permanency, and Target TN.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
OK, so list what needs to be thrown out to make it workable.

I see two things that need to be modified:

The one main problem I see is the question of free will, that the will and every single notion that comes into it is placed there by God. I think that has to go, as it does not only play merry hell with human choice and responsibility, key story material, but does also destroy the notion that an act of magic could ever be anything else but in accordance with God’s own will. A possible explanation might be that the Mutakallemim are aware that Will does somehow not seem to be an accident but something different, and that Will, maybe to be equated with Soul, is what sets man apart from animals.

The problem, if we want to see this as a problem and not as a benefit, of making Will and Soul something else than accidents is that they can then not be manipulated directly by magic.

The other main problem seems to be that all accidents are created anew by God with every new time-atom, as this means that any accident created by means of magic does only last for a single time-atom; then it is gone along with all other accidents and God fills the entire universe anew with accidents for the next time-atom.

For this I perceive two possible solutions:

1) Accidents do actually last longer than for a single time-atom; they are, in fact, perpetual until changed by God. This frees God from the constant recreation of accidents and makes magical effects virtually permanent until undone by God.

2) Accidents do not last longer than a single time-atom, but it is not God himself who imbues the universe with all those new accidents every single time-atom, but a host of angelic servitors of his. Working magic would then be either forcing or tricking a divine servitor spirit to create accidents of the magician’s choice.
This would actually be rather in line with the view put forth by St. Augustine and held through the entire middle ages that all magic is always carried out by demons that are somehow made to do a magician’s bidding.

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My real name is Michael; use it, if you like.


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