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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
One concern I have about Drama use in combat is how my players will feel about essentially being immortal as long as they have Drama. I totally subscribe to the idea that a PC should only die because it is his time in the narrative to go. And to be honest, that's what it is like even in games like D&D or nWOD, because storytellers are ALWAYS fudging from behind the screen. I've had an nWOD ST say, "Hmm...Well, if you drop all of your Willpower, I'll let you re-roll that thing that just killed you."


I can only imagine that they will soon be a bit bored.

I myself just roll the dice out on the table and let the chips fall where they may. There is a certain thrill with full stakes combat. And will success is wonderful, without the possibility of failure it loses it's zest. Just my 2 cents, everyone has different styles.

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
aka the Well & the Cart debate.
:lol:

Seanachai wrote:
The difference is that in D&D and nWOD, the rules don't implicitly say, "You can't die unless you want." How are we going to word this in the EOS document?
I prefer the way I wrote it. You can use a PA point to survive any wound, but the wound itself isn't going anywhere and you get smacked with a Permanent Impairment.

pbj44 wrote:
I can only imagine that they will soon be a bit bored.
That's why the impairment is there... Would one rather play his old blade slinger character who lost his sword arm but otherwise survived a mortal wound, or a new one? If the old character is automatically dead, one can't have that choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:31 pm 
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higgins wrote:
pbj44 wrote:
I can only imagine that they will soon be a bit bored.
That's why the impairment is there... Would one rather play his old blade slinger character who lost his sword arm but otherwise survived a mortal wound, or a new one? If the old character is automatically dead, one can't have that choice.


I did see that in your document, Higgins, but I guess I wasn't clear what Impairment meant. Using Drama/PA to Miraculously Survive a lethal wound and yet still suffering its impairments certainly addresses my concern well. I am interested to see what Impairments will be (Flaws or narrative only?).

In my game I had "Steel" as a skill that players used in horrible situations like torture, ambush, dire situations, and supernatural encounters. If they failed they suffered Shock and Awe for the scene and "lethal" wounds left them with impairments like paranoia and even insanity. These were Flaws, though, they could be bought off with SA points and role-play. How would you deal with impairments?

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:11 pm 
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Permanent Impairments are a term that basically covers any additional effect that the wound has in addition to Shock, Pain and BL, such as missing fingers, etc. All lethal wounds should have multiple examples to pick impairments from should PAs be used to survive. That's how I see it.

I've revamped the skills too a bit and indeed introduced Steel.

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Edit: Oops. Accidentally hit edit instead of quote.

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Last edited by Seanachai on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:36 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
If this kind of thing sounds plausible, I guess they would have to be called Impairments and not Permanent Impairments.
If I recall Ian's initial thoughts it was... Flaws can be bought off, but PI's can't, even if the effect is the same. This needs some discussion though.

So, essentially, I would make all physical Flaws PI's in a historical setting. Also, losing one's honour in a viking/samurai setting would probably be a PI as well. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:47 am 
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higgins wrote:
I've revamped the skills too a bit and indeed introduced Steel.


Here's my write up for the Steel skill including the Shock and Awe results for failures.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20926585/Steel_Skill.docx

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:44 am 
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higgins wrote:
Permanent Impairments are a term that basically covers any additional effect that the wound has in addition to Shock, Pain and BL, such as missing fingers, etc. All lethal wounds should have multiple examples to pick impairments from should PAs be used to survive. That's how I see it.


IIRC we hadf temporary impairments as having a specific physical effect until treated/healed as well as permanent impairments where the specific physical effect was permanent. TIs could become PIs if the healing process went badly or the level of healing capability wasn't available during the healing process.

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:29 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Permanent Impairments are a term that basically covers any additional effect that the wound has in addition to Shock, Pain and BL, such as missing fingers, etc. All lethal wounds should have multiple examples to pick impairments from should PAs be used to survive. That's how I see it.


I have no idea why, but throughout this topic the scene of King Arthur's combat with the Black Knight in "Monty Python's Holy Grail" keeps coming to mind!

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:55 pm 
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There's your daily dosage of absurd humor :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
TIs could become PIs if the healing process went badly or the level of healing capability wasn't available during the healing process.


Or if old wounded areas were attacked again or suffered multiple wounds! :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
TIs could become PIs if the healing process went badly or the level of healing capability wasn't available during the healing process.


Seanachai wrote:
Or if old wounded areas were attacked again or suffered multiple wounds! :twisted:


Amputations aside I don't think there were any instant PIs. This fed into a more detailed healing system, and I wanted the healing process to determine the extent to which the TI became a PI (rather than the wound itself detailing this).

I don't think you'd want to trace all the TIs a character had over their life in order to check multiples in the same location increasing the chance of a PI, but if that's your thing then by all means.

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
I don't think you'd want to trace all the TIs a character had over their life...


Only the Level 5 wounds have impairments, right? I would probably just have a few Flaws called: "Scared, Marked," or "Crippled" that may or may not have certain effects (Easier to recognize, penalties to certain tests, etc). To make it easy, Marked and Scared could be a Temporary Impairments and Crippled could be the buzzword for Permanent Impairment.

The wound chart could have some flavor as to what these should be, but the player would just put it on this character sheet as "Crippled: Left Leg" or "Scared: Right arm". Scars and marks could become crippling flaws via bad healing, infection, etc. If healed or somehow bought off, scars and marks could be removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:53 am 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
I don't think you'd want to trace all the TIs a character had over their life...


Seanachai wrote:
Only the Level 5 wounds have impairments, right?


No -- some level 5s had immediate PIs. Lesser wounds caused TIs which, if not healed correctly, could become PIs.

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 Post subject: Re: Spending PAs and Combat
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:21 am 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
Seanachai wrote:
Only the Level 5 wounds have impairments, right?

No -- some level 5s had immediate PIs. Lesser wounds caused TIs which, if not healed correctly, could become PIs.,


I'm not sure we need two more abbreviations in this game: TI and PI. Would it be easier if we classify it this way:

Level 4 Wounds: May leave serious physical ailments called "Impairments". If not healed correctly, these Impairments may become permanent Flaws.
Level 5 Wounds: If survived, these wounds may inflict Flaws and Impairments.

I propose using Flaws for "PIs" because:

1. Players are already aware of how Flaws work and can hinder them
2. Players can play this in a scene, possibly having it create interesting complications (which could be awarded with Drama/PAs; eg. the PC is easily recognized by the city guard because of his peculiar limp).
3. It means we don't have to have another box on the character sheet! :o

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