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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:39 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
A scene contains one or more periods of Limelight for each major character within the scene. Within each period of Limelight there is an opportunity for the character to take center stage and do whatever it is that the character does best. In the case of melee characters each period of Limelight will be further broken down into Rounds/Exchanges. The same applies to wizards engaged in Arcane Combat.

Limelight passes around the table in a clockwise manner until the scene completes. A player may steal the Limelight, taking their turn out of sequence, if they pay Drama and they did not have the previous Limelight. If more than one player wants to steal the Limelight then the player willing to pay the most Drama steals the Limelight. After the stolen Limelight is resolved, the Limelight returns to the player from whom it was stolen. The Limelight then continues to pass around the table in a clockwise manner, skipping the diva who stole the Limelight.


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This makes good sense and was basically what I was trying to say in the Limelight Archery thread. As Ian pointed out in this thread, keeping the GM generally away from the limelight process is smart. And I like the phrase "stealing the limelight"! Let the players have fun with that!

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:23 pm 
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But if we don't count the spell durations by limelights, rounds or anything, how will their duration be determined? I can definitely see that a magic system can be constructed where constant concentration is not needed to keep up the spell. In those cases, duration is important if it can run out during combat.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:36 pm 
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higgins wrote:
But if we don't count the spell durations by limelights, rounds or anything, how will their duration be determined? I can definitely see that a magic system can be constructed where constant concentration is not needed to keep up the spell. In those cases, duration is important if it can run out during combat.


I know we're not ready to have the magic system discussion yet, but I would imagine that sorcery in combat might be limited to range bands - the spell affects those in close proximity to you but not those at large - but as for duration, it's either going to be a instant flash of magic or it's going to probably last for the fight scene.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:45 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
higgins wrote:
For me, "scene" is TIER 0. If we call TIER 1 the "scene", how do we track the spell durations and/or fatigue? In scenes? IMO it would make more sense to track them in rounds.


Oh I so hope you're not intending to track time by how many Rounds transpire...


He means "Rounds of Limelights", right? Is it useful to keep track of time by how many limelights everyone has had? We're already going to do that basically with the reloading right? - "Yes, you can fire now because you spent one limelight reloading".

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
but as for duration, it's either going to be a instant flash of magic or it's going to probably last for the fight scene.
Holding a portcullis open with telekinesis... I think both instant and scene durations would be kind of lame. Although, I agree, that could well be modelled via constant concentration, but still... different magic systems are going to be different, but it's going to be important for someone at some point.

Seanachai wrote:
Ian.Plumb wrote:
higgins wrote:
For me, "scene" is TIER 0. If we call TIER 1 the "scene", how do we track the spell durations and/or fatigue? In scenes? IMO it would make more sense to track them in rounds.
Oh I so hope you're not intending to track time by how many Rounds transpire...
He means "Rounds of Limelights", right? Is it useful to keep track of time by how many limelights everyone has had? We're already going to do that basically with the reloading right? - "Yes, you can fire now because you spent one limelight reloading".
Yes, I meant TIER 1/"Rounds of Limelights".

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:34 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Holding a portcullis open with telekinesis... I think both instant and scene durations would be kind of lame. Although, I agree, that could well be modelled via constant concentration, but still... different magic systems are going to be different, but it's going to be important for someone at some point.


That is cool. Once we get all this limelight and ranged stuff down, I'm looking forward to starting the chats about EOS sorcery. I know that in my current use of the TROS revised sorcery, the portcullis would just remain open for the whole scene unless they just cast some sort of telekinatic blow to push it up. I also liked the Spending Successes submechanic in which you spend your surplus MOS on potency/duration. The storyteller could say: "Well - seeing how long this fight is taking, I'll say one limelight per success you spend."

Either way, it does look like we'll have to use a term like "Round" to mean everyone has had a turn/limelight. Your 'Lifeblood' won't need that since it operates outside of combat, but I'm at a loss of how Fatigue could work any other way than by counting limelights. I was even thinking of having a little fatigue chart that just got a token or slid a paperclip along a track.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:37 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
I'm at a loss of how Fatigue could work any other way than by counting limelights.
Same here.

However, if we count that by limelights, a single PC combat would mean that he never tires. :P

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Seanachai wrote:
I'm at a loss of how Fatigue could work any other way than by counting limelights.
Same here.

However, if we count that by limelights, a single PC combat would mean that he never tires. :P


Oh yeah! :cry:

Well, it somehow doesn't seem fair to ask heavy armored players to mark a tick on something every time they refresh (after a 'play'), but I guess that might be the only way to go about it. These ticks add up and either (a) deplete a die from the CP when they hit a certain value or (b) have to be rolled against when they hit a certain value or the player can take a pause between plays.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:52 am 
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Seanachai wrote:
but I'm at a loss of how Fatigue could work any other way than by counting limelights. I was even thinking of having a little fatigue chart that just got a token or slid a paperclip along a track.


From Core - Page 82

"Fatigue is an optional rule that simulates the wear
and exhaustion that comes from constant physical
exertion. Those characters wearing heavy armors (those
made of metal or that cover most of the body) lose 1 CP
every EN Rounds. Thus Sir Vhord, who has an EN of
4, loses 1 CP for every four uninterrupted Rounds spent
fighting or otherwise physically active. Those persons
wearing little or no armor lose 1 CP every 2 x EN
Rounds. Sir Vhord, fighting unarmored this time, now
loses 1 CP every 8 Rounds. These points may be
recovered by taking a few seconds to rest and rolling
EN/TN 6. Each success reduces Fatigue by one point."


I have never used this rule but will try to help out.

Fatigue could still be tracked in terms of uninterrupted combat rounds (or whatever term we are calling them now) as per Core, across multiple periods of limelight. Purely counting limelights won't work (if we use the above descriptor) for combat since limelight time is not fixed, but could generically work with non-melee activities; running, ect.

higgins wrote:
However, if we count that by limelights, a single PC combat would mean that he never tires. :P


Okay, but let's try changing the description:

"Fatigue is an optional rule that simulates the wear and exhaustion that comes from constant physical exertion. Those characters wearing heavy armors (those made of metal or that cover most of the body) lose 1 CP every limelight round beyond the first spent fighting or otherwise physically active. Those persons wearing little or no armor lose 1 CP every other limelight round beyond the first. This cumulative penalty is in effect for the duration of the scene unless relieved. Points lost may be recovered by resting one limelight, or removed by expending one drama point."

For the first limelight round of combat or strenuous activity, everybody is pretty fresh, but after that things start falling apart.

Then we have:

GM: Bob, you finish off the goblin but are exhausted!

Mike: Bob! I'm getting creamed over here!

Bob: Crap! Okay,Okay! I burn a drama point and race over to help!

Or

Charge Bob a limelight to refresh his character and survey the battlefield. This would be the melee character's version of a "reload/prep". :D

With limelight times variable, the new description simplifies fatigue and removes the above listed Core "crunch". Bob's character simply catches his breath for a limelight and moves on, no rolls necessary. But another point to emphasize is that during the scene the fatigue is persistant and cumulative until relieved or a drama point is spent. That is to say, fight opponents while in heavy armor, for say, three limelight rounds, and you are stuck with a -2 CP penalty for the duration of the scene until the condition is relieved by resting one limelight, or by using a drama point. Plunging into that crowd of Orcs to rescue the king just got a little scarier. Yes, you may mop the floor with them at first, but eventually...

Golly, sounds pretty cool! I might try this!

Since we seem to be more and more drifting towards counting rounds of Limelight, I guess I am going to use my counter doodad below:

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:54 am 
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But if we count by limelights, one long limelight (1-PC battle) will have no tiring. Or you meant the standard-TROS combat rounds? In that case, the pace of losing dice would be quite steep...

How many points will resting get you back though? Two? Three? All?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:39 am 
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higgins wrote:
But if we count by limelights, one long limelight (1-PC battle) will have no tiring. Or you meant the standard-TROS combat rounds? In that case, the pace of losing dice would be quite steep...


Yes, the initial limelight for a combatant, as I describe it, is a no penalty one. Again, the "realism" of the limelight moment is as subjective as it's length.

Let's stick with Sir Vhord from the original fatigue write-up. Say his initial combat limelight lasts 12 uninterrupted "phases" (term replacing exchanges? All these damn phrases floating around!), which in Core translated to 6 uninterrupted combat rounds.

In Core he would lose 1 CP during this time but not in EoS limelight. No, his PAs are firing, he's well rested, and even took his vitamins that day. We give him a pass for the initial limelight...hope he gets a lot done!

But on his second limelight we don't. His second limelight may only consist of 2 phases of melee, but he still loses 1 CP. And on and on throughout the scene, until he either rests during a limelight or uses a Drama point. My mod would of necessity be a bit harsher than Core simply because of the fact that limelight times for each player/character will potentially vary wildly.

higgins wrote:
How many points will resting get you back though? Two? Three? All?


Since a limelight scene is time variable, he would get them all back.

This whole thought of mine may be junk so think it over..

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:55 pm 
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pbj44 wrote:
But on his second limelight we don't. His second limelight may only consist of 2 phases of melee, but he still loses 1 CP.
I get that, but if this is a single PC battle, he is effectively in the limelight from the beginning of the combat through the end, isn't he? IMO it's just a single uninterrupted limelight, whether he goes through two, thirteen or a hundred of twelve refreshes.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:30 pm 
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yep, I see your point. If the pc is engaged in solo play with only himself in the scene, then my idea would not work. Better off to just counting phases or melee rounds.

Or perhaps assign varying fatigue point values to all maneuvers and let it accumulate that way.

Then you could have something a little more tactical than Core like this:

Fatigue is an optional rule that simulates the wear and exhaustion that comes from constant physical exertion.

Those characters wearing heavy armors (those made of metal or that cover most of the body) accrue varying points of fatigue for each maneuver chosen while fighting, or 2 fatigue point per limelight while otherwise physically active.

Those persons wearing little or no armor accrue points of fatigue at half the posted rate for each maneuver chosen, or 1 fatigue point per limelight while otherwise physically active.

Once a character’s accrued fatigue maximum exceeds a character’s referenced Stamina score on the chart below, the character has become fatigued. Fatigued characters loose 1 CP per limelight until either resting one limelight, or by expending one drama point.


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These number are not carefully considered but present the basic idea. Since I don't use fatigue rules I tried to come up with something a little spicy for the sim crowd.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:24 am 
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OR we could just smack him with the fatigue effect after Stamina+Strength refeshes (just Stamina when in heavy armour -- or higher of Stamina & Strength is that's too low).

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:44 am 
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:lol: Okay, try this:

Fatigue is an optional rule that simulates the wear and exhaustion that comes from constant physical exertion.

Those characters wearing heavy armors (those made of metal or that cover most of the body) are fatigued when combat refreshes equal Stamina or Strength (whichever is greater), or when the character's limelights equal Stamina or Strength while otherwise physically active.

Those persons wearing little or no armor are fatigued when combat refreshes equal Stamina+Strength, or when when the character's limelights equal Stamina+Strength while otherwise physically active.

Once the above conditions are met, the character has become fatigued. Fatigued characters loose 1 CP per limelight until either resting one limelight, or by expending one drama point.

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