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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:01 am 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
higgins wrote:
I find myself agreeing more and more with Ian lately...
Now you're just freakin' me out...
:lol:
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:15 pm 
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higgins wrote:
So, I would be perfectly happy with the GM calling for a CP drop every now and then (3-4 refreshes, like the normal limelights would be) and the guy in no armor can ignore every other call.


This gets my vote!

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:11 pm 
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higgins wrote:
So, I would be perfectly happy with the GM calling for a CP drop every now and then (3-4 refreshes, like the normal limelights would be)


So no roll or counter? Players just loose 1 CP every 3-4 refreshes? How are you going to word this in the document? I'd prefer it left as a suggestion then.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
So no roll or counter? Players just loose 1 CP every 3-4 refreshes?
If we put rolls or counters on top of that, I fear that the penalties coming from this mechanic end up being meaningless small.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:06 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Seanachai wrote:
So no roll or counter? Players just loose 1 CP every 3-4 refreshes?
If we put rolls or counters on top of that, I fear that the penalties coming from this mechanic end up being meaningless small.


Hmm, I don't know. "The Armor Penalty for this armor subtracts 1 CP always and 1 CP die every 3 or 4 refreshes" just doesn't sound that fun to me. Do we have any other options?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:41 pm 
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I was wondering if NPCs have limelights? Does the evil wizard, protected by his henchmen in front, get a limelight? Do the Henchmen? Or is limelight restricted to just the PCs? If it is restricted to the PCs, how do the NPCs get to act?

By the way, I think it is great how much you all have contributed latley. Still in the slow process of reading through it!!


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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Iorwerth wrote:
If it is restricted to the PCs, how do the NPCs get to act?
It's a tough concept to get our D&D/turn-by-turn minds around, I know. In TROS combat was always cinematic, and EOS is too.

At the beginning of the scene, you describe what's going on: the henchmen are over here doing this, the evil wizard is over there trying to do that, and hey, what are you guys doing?

And then you move from limelight to limelight of the players. If an NPC is doing something TO a player, you'll probably handle the rules of that during the player's limelight. If an NPC is doing something that the player can't react to, then you probably would just describe it at the beginning of a round of limelights as part of the background.

How do you usually handle it?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Iorwerth wrote:
I was wondering if NPCs have limelights?
That's a good question, actually. People seemed to think that once the Limelight roster is set, only spending PAs can change it, but can the established Limelight roster be broken by the referee? I mean, if I as a referee have an NPC who wants to target a character that is way behind in the Limelight roster (he's the prince, he's carrying an important item, whatever), this creates a problem if I can't attack him/her before his Limelight. Heck, the NPC might even be killed as I wait the victim's turn.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:40 pm 
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higgins wrote:
can the established Limelight roster be broken by the referee?
Our earlier discussion came down to this:

1. Limelight roster chosen arbitrarily or by referee decision. Problem: If you had let me go first, I wouldn't have to spend that PA point and I could have done that cool thing I wanted!

2. Limelight roster chosen methodically (seat arrangement, Wit score, etc). Problem 1: Ah shoot, I wanted to do that thing that Bob just did but didn't have the Drama to spend on it. Problem 2: Oh shoot, you killed the guy that was running to engage Bob, robbing him of a meele bout.

My original recommendation was to have everyone announce their general intentions at the beginning of the Round (Tier 1), and let the storytellers and players negotiate the roster by common sense and Drama expenditure.

GM: The duke's henchmen are running forward to engage Jon and Ari, who are standing in front. Wil you are standing in the door frame. Meanwhile you all see the duke running up the stairs and loading his crossbow and smiling evilly at Ari, his enemy. What do you guys want to do?
Jon: I charge forward at the closest two henchmen.
Ari: I shout, "The Duke is mine!" My PAs are firing and I'm finally going to get revenge on this bastard. I'm going to run past the henchmen and climb up the stairs after him.
Wil: I take out my bow and shoot at the duke. We can't let him get away or take a shot at one of us.
GM: Excellent. We'll start with Jon and the henchmen, then see if Jon can get his revenge before Wil takes his shot.
Wil: Wait a second! If you describe Ari in melee with the duke first, that means I'll have a +1 difficulty on my timing roll!
GM: I know, but this is Wil's PA scene. If you want to steal the limelight, you can spend a Drama to try your shot first and have a clear shot.

If in the middle of the round (tier 1) something happens (Wil and Ari have to turn their attention to save Jon who can't handle the henchmen by himsef), then the players can spend Drama to change the roster as they want.

If we go by Wits or seat arrangement on this, the battle with the henchmen (Jon) would be really anti-climatic after the duke has been shot or stabbed. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:50 pm 
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Your example doesn't seem different from option 1 at all. It even has the same problem. :)

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:14 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Your example doesn't seem different from option 1 at all. It even has the same problem. :)
I disagree. The roster is decided before all the action starts happening. The storyteller isn't making the decision of where to go after an emergency comes up. In the example I gave the storyteller insisted on describing Ari's turn first, but in most uses of this the players might have more input. If you need a better example of this, I can work on one.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:22 pm 
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But the roster is still arbitrarily a referee decision...

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:32 pm 
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higgins wrote:
But the roster is still arbitrarily a referee decision...
Again, I disagree. At the beginning of the round-of-limelights I hear what everyone's intentions are and the negotiate with them what the roster will be based on that. It should be obvious why we're setting the roster. The Method 1 would be for me to just jump from player to player during the scene. What I'm describing is much more transparent: the players understand why the roster is set as it is for the round and they have some say. Therefore it is not arbitrary.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:50 pm 
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I think I'm not really the right person to discuss this with as I don't have any requirements about the roster system as long as it works quickly and without dice rolls. Michael seemed to care about this pretty strongly though...

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Rounds, Limelights, Refreshes...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:04 pm 
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higgins wrote:
...as long as it works quickly and without dice rolls
I think we're all on board about that. Still, this is going to be one of the most difficult write-ups. I was just trying to explain TROS/EOS to a buddy in my HEMA group. He was really excited to playtest with me but he definitely had a hard time imagining a combat that didn't have initiative rolls. :lol:

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