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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Drama or no Drama?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
Do I as a REFEREE see these as equal value? I want to give a reward, but I don't want that reward to be as long-lasting as SA/PA.
Give him a bite from you pizza slice then :) I don't mind this. If the whole group agrees the player deserves a bonus, why not a long lasting one?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Drama or no Drama?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:34 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
pbj44 wrote:
Make one of the five PA buckets a fixed one and call it Drama. It will then max out at five and remove the danger of abuse. It will have the same rarity that Luck had in the old system but will not strictly speaking be a separate mechanic, merely a subtype of PA, as Luck was a specific type of SA.


Seanachai wrote:
Interesting, but whether or not you put it on a different place on the character sheet doesn't make much of a difference.


While I do grasp your point, let's not dismiss this out of hand. At this stage of the discussion we are at what I call the "splitting hairs" stage, where labels and technicalities get pretty important.

I want two seperate mechanics, but could live with this compromise.

Ian ideally wants two seperate mechanics - but I'm guessing that this could satisfy him.

You want a seperate mechanic - Again, I assume this potentially could satisfy you.

Michael seems as though he would be alright either way, as long as what we end up with promotes narrative involvement.

Higgins does not want a seperate mechanic. Okay, fine. This is not a technically a seperate mechanic, just a specific type of PA.

Seanachai wrote:
Do I as a REFEREE see these as equal value? I want to give a reward, but I don't want that reward to be as long-lasting as SA/PA.


We could have an optional rule stating that points that go into this Drama PA bucket may only be awarded not converted, leaving it to the individual groups to decide how this process is controlled. Majority vote, GM fiat, ect. This would handle an important concern about how these points initially enter into the game, something important to both you and I. And of course, like Luck, When you burn a point, it's gone.

Heck, we could even have 10 or so listed functions of this specialized PA Drama, with guidelines supporting each individual EoS group cherry picking the ones they liked best. This would satisfy everyone since there seems to be some disagreement on what PAs should or could be used for during a scene.

In my mind this would be a blend of the old and the new, and give all concerned most of what they want.

Regardless, I think we should lay out the various ideas and put them to a vote, perhaps with a poll. Set a cutoff date for voting and then move forward confident that the community has expressed it's wishes.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Drama or no Drama?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
Do I as a REFEREE see these as equal value? I want to give a reward, but I don't want that reward to be as long-lasting as SA/PA.


This isn't an issue for me. I don't feel the need to tier metagame rewards. For me, it's a level of detail that I don't need.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Drama or no Drama?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:08 pm 
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pbj44 wrote:
Ian ideally wants two seperate mechanics - but I'm guessing that this could satisfy him.


I've changed my mind.

One of my concerns with EoS is that overall design gets lost as we detail individual components. For me, the biggest difference between TRoS and EoS is the complete abstraction of the combat environment. It shows a clear design imperative -- taking something that was half-implemented in TRoS and taking it to a satisfactory conclusion, by stripping out areas of detail that gave no benefit, caused much confusion, and slowed down the pace of the game.

With that in mind I am content to have one metagame resource that is used for everything metagame. It is straightforward, uncomplicated, and it leaves the decision-making to the players (I will use my resource for THIS!) rather than the referee (I'll give you this resource because I only want you to use it for this purpose).

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Drama or no Drama?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:33 pm 
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pbj wrote:
Regardless, I think we should lay out the various ideas and put them to a vote, perhaps with a poll.

Ian.Plumb wrote:
With that in mind I am content to have one metagame resource that is used for everything metagame. It is straightforward, uncomplicated, and it leaves the decision-making to the players (I will use my resource for THIS!) rather than the referee (I'll give you this resource because I only want you to use it for this purpose)

OK. I don't think we need a vote here, PBJ. I think I'm the only stubborn one here who doesn't mind SA points being used like Drama but doesn't like Drama points being used as SAs. For the sake of "getting on with it" (another Python-ism there for you), we can forget Drama, I guess, but I apologize if I use the term again on another thread; you'll know what I mean.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Drama or no Drama?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:40 pm 
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pbj44 wrote:
Michael seems as though he would be alright either way, as long as what we end up with promotes narrative involvement.

That’s pretty much it, yes. I’m opposed to all mechanics that implicitly, let alone explicitly, discourage players from using their Drama-ressource from influencing the story narratively. Apart from that, I see sufficient pros and cons or both PAs alone and PAs plus Drama not to prefer one solution very much over the other.

Seanachai wrote:
Do I as a REFEREE see these as equal value? I want to give a reward, but I don't want that reward to be as long-lasting as SA/PA.
Ian.Plumb wrote:
For me, it's a level of detail that I don't need.

Me neither. However, if an elegant mechanic for this in keeping with the spirit of the design were proposed I can’t see myself opposing it.

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