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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:26 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
OK, so if Archer has a Clear Shot/Line of Sight, that just means no significant cover. If he doesn't have a Clear Shot/Line of Sight, that means he's rolling a Timing Roll (to be renamed later, I hope!)
I like the "Clear shot -> Significant cover -> Impossible cover" ladder. That makes it quite evidient whether LoS is available or not even without bringing it up.

What's wrong with "timing" btw?

Seanachai wrote:
OK - but what we have here is a change from the original concept of Terrain Rolls: You want to do something not otherwise covered by the rules? OK - here's your difficulty, roll for it, but if you fail you'll get stuck somewhere or stumble and lose half your CP.
I don't think a failed press should make you lose half CP. Failing to produce a weapon from the belt shouldn't do that either. The only use when you actually lose additional CP is when you make the roll for keeping your feet in a first place.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:25 pm 
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higgins wrote:
What's wrong with "timing" btw?
It's a good term if we're just talking about lining up a shot against a target's cover. But if it also means setting the range, that's kind of weird.

So we have:

Melee Fighters: Maneuver Rolls + Terrain Rolls
Ranged Fighters: Timing Rolls + "Shooting?" Rolls (+ Terrain Rolls?)

If we're folding movement, footing, multiple opponents or other Terrain Roll domain actions into Timing, I might want another name. But seriously, it's not a big issue. I'd rather devote our intellectual prowess to getting this all defined so I can start playtesting!

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Melee = Maneuvers + Terrain
Ranged = Accuracy + Timing + Prep + Terrain

About range... the further your target is, the more important timing is. I don't see a conflict there.

Yeah, ranged attacks have two extra types of rolls compared to melee, but since they have essentially only one maneuver to perform, that would make their life more interesting.

Although strictly speaking, drawing weapons in melee (which goes under "terrain") is pretty analogous to prepping...

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:26 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Melee = Maneuvers + Terrain
Ranged = Accuracy + Timing + Prep + Terrain
Accuracy here means "taking the shot"? OK - but I doubt players will ever call it an accuracy roll. It does seems sort of counter-intuitive that two separate rolls (Timing and Accuracy) represents ONE action: shooting someone.

higgins wrote:
About range... the further your target is, the more important timing is. I don't see a conflict there.
OK. Timing is fine. Like I said, I'll probably be calling half of these things different at the table anyway. :D

higgins wrote:
Although strictly speaking, drawing weapons in melee (which goes under "terrain") is pretty analogous to prepping...
Are you suggesting the one-die-at-a-time rule should go for melee combatants drawing a weapon? Hmm... Does that complicate matters or simplify them since it's analogous?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
Accuracy here means "taking the shot"? OK - but I doubt players will ever call it an accuracy roll.
Any suggestions?

Seanachai wrote:
It does seems sort of counter-intuitive that two separate rolls (Timing and Accuracy) represents ONE action: shooting someone.
How else would you handle giving the archer some choices?

Seanachai wrote:
higgins wrote:
Although strictly speaking, drawing weapons in melee (which goes under "terrain") is pretty analogous to prepping...
Are you suggesting the one-die-at-a-time rule should go for melee combatants drawing a weapon? Hmm... Does that complicate matters or simplify them since it's analogous?
I've revised this a bit. The roll can still be made one die at a time if one insists, but it's not stated as plainly.

Prep Roll:
- this mechanic is only used when you need to get off the shot fast (loading and shooting in the same limelight, shooting twice in a row in the same limelight)
- as you have only one chance to get the necessary successes, it's recommended roll multiple dice
- if you succeed, you can take the shot with the rest of your pool
- if you fail, you didn't get your weapon prepped and missed the opportunity for your shot. If you want your weapon loaded, you must continue rolling until necessary successes are gathered. Or you can abandon the prepping and use the rest of your dice for something else.

So, strictly speaking, failing the roll would mean:
- in case of archery, the failure is in not getting the shot (you can still reload on -- if not threatened; if you're threatened, you better use the rest of the dice for evading)
- in case of melee, the failure is not getting the weapon out (but you can still evade -- you're threatened after all)

However... I merely wanted to point out that pulling out weapons isn't strictly "terrain" related as long as we're discussing the nomenclature.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:20 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Seanachai wrote:
Accuracy here means "taking the shot"? OK - but I doubt players will ever call it an accuracy roll.
Any suggestions?
Nope, not really. "Aiming" roll?

higgins wrote:
Seanachai wrote:
It does seems sort of counter-intuitive that two separate rolls (Timing and Accuracy) represents ONE action: shooting someone.
How else would you handle giving the archer some choices?
I like the gamey-ness of resource management of MP, just like the CP split between offensive, defense and terrain. And I think the analogue carries OK: "If you're fighting with a sword, you make this roll to make sure you get where you need to go and then you swing. If you're fighting with a bow, you make this roll to make sure you're where and when you need to be to take a shot, and then you shoot."

higgins wrote:
However... I merely wanted to point out that pulling out weapons isn't strictly "terrain" related as long as we're discussing the nomenclature.
True, which was why I always called them Tactics Rolls in my game: fancy footwork, pulling weapons while keeping your guard up, facing multiple opponents, pressing, etc, all seemed more like tactics in a fight.

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Last edited by Seanachai on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Melee = Maneuvers + Tactics
Ranged = Aiming + Timing + Tactics

I dunno... Tactics seems a bit... clean and strict word, I think. Hardly one would use for hanging on a chandelier. :lol: Might as well be Stunt Rolls.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:24 pm 
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higgins wrote:
I dunno... Tactics seems a bit... clean and strict word, I think. Hardly one would use for hanging on a chandelier. :lol: Might as well be Stunt Rolls.
Hmm...Stunt Roll. That would make sense for just about everything except keeping your footing, I think. Otherwise the player might be called upon to describe a stunt.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:36 pm 
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I think that would make sense too. Terrain roll would be the one where you lose half CP if failed, in Stunts, you just fail.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:23 pm 
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higgins wrote:
I think that would make sense too. Terrain roll would be the one where you lose half CP if failed, in Stunts, you just fail.
If we want to play with names, that's fine, but I don't think we need to separate the names just because of the results. Like any test, the dice decide if the intention is reached. The different with footing is that it is called for by the referee, his intention being that "You're going to fall on your arse."

How do we feel about failing multiple opponent rolls? Do they lose half their remaining CP or does the fact that they're CP is now smaller because they rolled unsuccessfully enough?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:19 am 
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The smaller CP in enough IMO. I mean... the character is only losing half CP because prone people have half CP. It's the losing your whole CP with greater MoF that is the exception to all other rules.

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- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones


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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:01 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Melee = Maneuvers + Tactics
Ranged = Aiming + Timing + Tactics
I'm OK with Timing Roll generally, but instead of Aiming perhaps we should just say Attack Roll since they are using their ATN.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:08 am 
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Melee = Maneuvers + Stunts
Ranged = Attacks + Timing + Stunts (including Prep Stunts)

OR

Melee = Maneuvers + Stunts
Ranged = Attacks + Timing + Prep + Stunts

_________________
"Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I've found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else."
- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones


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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:21 pm 
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higgins wrote:
Melee = Maneuvers + Stunts
Ranged = Attacks + Timing + Prep + Stunts
Any way we can combine Prep and Timing? It seems like it's just a matter of adding difficulty. You want to take a shot and you have a number of complications - cover, lighting, and oh, yeah, your crossbow isn't quite readied yet...

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Creating a line of sight a.k.a. Timing the shot
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:00 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
Any way we can combine Prep and Timing? It seems like it's just a matter of adding difficulty. You want to take a shot and you have a number of complications - cover, lighting, and oh, yeah, your crossbow isn't quite readied yet...
Since Timing is rolled AFTER the Attack... It may create some problems. You got the shot off, yay! Whoops, but failed to load your weapon in a first place.

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- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones


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