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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:59 pm 
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I think we can roll Knockout and Resistance into one...

Perhaps a new name for KO? Something that incorporates other Strength + Agility related stuff? No isea what, though.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Yeah, I was always sort of confused by Knockdown and Knockout as terms since they are what you're doing but what you're trying to resist. So there are three "active" resistances:

Strength + Agility: Resisting a sudden physical force and not falling down.
Stamina + Willpower: Resisting a sudden force and not falling asleep.
Stamina + Willpower: Resisting a sudden force and not falling under its influence

Yeah, the bottom two should just be Resistance used for resisting chemicals (incl. poison and alcohol), some magical influences?, or disease.

What do we think of words meaning Fortitude? Yeah, it's used in D&D, but it's a pretty good word. Other words that mean the same thing:

Grit
Heartiness
Toughness
Resolve
Stability
Balance
Mettle

What stands out to you?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:38 pm 
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I like Toughness!

P.S.
I typo'd it Roughness the first time around.

But what else one could use Strength + Agility for other than KD?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:11 pm 
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higgins wrote:
I like Toughness!
Toughness to me seems more like a Strength + Stamina type of roll, whereas Balance seems more like Strength + Agility. It could be used for all the acrobatics-type rolls in the game including keeping your footing when someone tries to trip you or something.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:53 am 
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I'm thinking...

Feat of Strength: Strength + Stamina
Toughness: Stamina + Willpower

If we call Stamina + Willpower Resistance, then... it's the most logical combination to use for HT. Healing wounds based on "Resistance"? Toughness is quite catch all IMO -- healing, disease, poisoning, retaining conciousness.

Balance(?): Strength + Agility

I'm not so sure about that one... tightrope and narrow ledges seem more like a skill to me. Stability? Keeping Knockdown?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:01 am 
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higgins wrote:
Balance(?): Strength + Agility

I'm not so sure about that one... tightrope and narrow ledges seem more like a skill to me. Stability? Keeping Knockdown?


Walking a tightrope is a skill -- nobody sees a rope suspended in space andthink "I'll walk across that" without at least having seen someone do it.

Narrow ledges -- a climber will have had a bucketload of prctice at doing this, but the concept does come naturally. Using stepping stones to cross a stream is a similar concept.

Riding a skateboard -- definitely a skill, but the first time anyone attempts to ride one there is an underlying ability that tells you whether you are a natural (or a guy with a broken arm). ;)

Riding a bike is similar to the skateboard, though easier. Yes t is a skill but anyone can have a go at it based on their Balance ability.

Perhaps you could say that certain events -- walking aling a brick fence for instance -- need a balance check if you are not an acrobat. An acrobat can automatically do it. Something like that?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:11 am 
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What about being knocked off horseback? That seems like a skill use to me as well. IMO there's two options:

- make keeping one's feet a skill use (Strength+Athletics?)
- just accepting that Knockdown has a narrow field of use

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:05 pm 
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Two choices here:

1. Make ledges, tightrope an Attribute + Attribute Test. This means those trained can use Skill if it is higher. Then we run into that Strength 2 + Agility 3 is the same as Strength 2 + Skill 3 issue.
2. Make ledges, tightrope an Attribute + Skill Test, meaning those untrained will suffer -1 for not having the skill, effectively becoming Agility (?) -1.

Actually, that was something we needed to discuss. The EOS pre-alpha as written mentions replacing an attribute with a skill. Can the player choose which one? So in the case of choice 1 the player can replace their Strength or their Agility with their high Athletics skill?

If not, we'll have to describe that in a Test formula there is a primary attribute and a secondary, and that only the secondary can be replace by a skill. In other words, to get across the tightrope either Agility > Strength or Strength > Agility and therefore a better indicator of your success.

higgins wrote:
What about getting knocked off horseback?
I always made that a Horsemanship check when I ran jousts. If they don't have skill riding a horse and they're riding one into battle anyway, then they probably will deserve that EOS -1 penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
The EOS pre-alpha as written mentions replacing an attribute with a skill. Can the player choose which one?
The lesser connected one. I've placed the one I see more connected as the first in the formulas. So, in Wits+Acumen, you can switch the Acumen, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:15 pm 
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OK, so it seems like for feats that "anyone could have a go" at, it's Attribute + Attribute, and those who are specialized can swap in a skill for the second attribute. For those that really require some experience, it must be Attribute + Skill or else Attribute - 1. A few examples should be given in the document, but we might stress that many situations are up to storyteller-player negotiation.

I think that Attribute + Skill tests don't really need a name. If I call for a Balance test (Strength + Agility), a player might have acrobatic-related skill that is appropriate and that doesn't mean he's making a separate test.

I think we also want to avoid any confusion with "keeping your feet" because that's how we have worded one of the uses of a Terrain Roll, which is ostensibly Agility + Wits.

In summary, I think that...

...the terms Knockdown and Knockout should be removed from the game, at least from the player's perspective since that's not what you're doing; it's what's done to you.

...we should decide which combinations the game will require and which ones it will leave open. I think the solid combos are the ones that are integral to the system as a whole - so healing, perception, resisting magic or other effects (such as a blow to the head or hook trip maneuver). Everything else doesn't really require a name, I guess, but things like Feat of Strength and Memory should be recommended.

So that means...
Quote:
Feat of Strength: Strength+Stamina
Toughness/Grit/Mettle/Resistance: Stamina+Willpower
Memory: Acumen+Wits
Perception: Wits+Acumen
Reflexes: Agility+Wits
Balance/Steadiness: Strength+Agility


I like Grit or Mettle > Toughness and Balance > Steadiness.

So, there would never be the formula Attribute 1 + Attribute 1, right? No Str + Str or Acumen + Acumen? I think that's important to note in the document.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:10 am 
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Seanachai wrote:
I like Grit or Mettle > Toughness and Balance > Steadiness.
For me it's the other way around. Grit & Mettle strike me as odd when used in health&healing aspects and Balance has too much of "tightrope flavour" for me and it might cause confusion. And I think I prefer Stability above Steadiness as well.

Seanachai wrote:
So, there would never be the formula Attribute 1 + Attribute 1, right? No Str + Str or Acumen + Acumen? I think that's important to note in the document.
Noted.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:24 am 
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higgins wrote:
For me it's the other way around. Grit & Mettle strike me as odd when used in health&healing aspects and Balance has too much of "tightrope flavour" for me and it might cause confusion.
You ever watch westerns? Someone who can survive a gunshot wound and get up to walk around despite the pain the next day has Grit.

Other words for Balance are: Stability, Steadfastness, Poise, Durability, Solidity, Steadfastness. Honestly, though, I think when someone gets tripped or struck with a nasty wind spell, it's pretty natural to ask them to roll to keep their balance.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:55 pm 
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Feat of Agility :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:07 pm 
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Since we're talking about keeping you footing it could be:

A Feat of Feet

.... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: Regular A+A & A+S Rolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Seanachai wrote:
You ever watch westerns? Someone who can survive a gunshot wound and get up to walk around despite the pain the next day has Grit.
Really? Every dictionary I read describes grit as a totally mental effect/having a spirit. Then again... what you describe is handled mentally in TROS as well, being a Willpower factor.

Do you call the people who heal quick "gritty"?

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- Lord Petyr Baelish, A Game of Thrones


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