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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:52 am 
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Seanachai wrote:
higgins wrote:
the Roman scrutum has a DTN 5, which effectively makes "the fearsome falx" completely useless
Ok, was I the only one that laughed at that?
At least I didn't typo it into a full scrotum. :P Still, the more I read that snippet, the funnier it gets. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:51 pm 
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higgins wrote:
TROS has only two practical weapon TNs, one is 6 and the other is 7, while 5 and 8 are either too good or too bad for putting into common use. Now, using d20s would give us a greater number of practical weapon TNs (say, from 11 to 15) and thus a more varied mechanical representation of different arms.

In essence, this is where TFOB blundered. Not wanting to make many of the weapon stats identical, high TNs were used quite often, and thus we have "falx, greatly feared by Romans" with primary ATN 8 while Roman scrutum has a DTN 5, which effectively makes "the fearsome falx" completely useless vs a Roman legionnaire. :(

So someone messed up the stats for the Dacian falx, therefore we should start rolling d20s? I fear this will lead to "design by committee" syndrome in which there are endless debates about whether the Dane Axe should have ATN 12 or 13.


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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:50 pm 
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Certic wrote:
So someone messed up the stats for the Dacian falx, therefore we should start rolling d20s? I fear this will lead to "design by committee" syndrome in which there are endless debates about whether the Dane Axe should have ATN 12 or 13.

Haven't you been reading this thread? The falx was just one example. Any weapon with a TN other than 6 or 7 becomes either too good or too bad. (Maybe someone should go count the number of weapons that fall into that category.) The ability to have a wider range of plausible TNs will make the weapon stats more realistic.

I agree with your concern about the "design by committee" syndrome, especially since this is a fan effort. Every single topic raised so far has become completely bogged down in conflicting opinions. Maybe you could suggest some alternatives? Personally, I think that if TROS 2.0, or whatever we're going to call it, is ever going to get off the ground, there needs to be a small, core group of stakeholders who make the ultimate decisions, with a defined process for getting input from the community.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:43 pm 
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Daeruin wrote:
Certic wrote:
I fear this will lead to "design by committee" syndrome in which there are endless debates about whether the Dane Axe should have ATN 12 or 13.
Haven't you been reading this thread? The falx was just one example. Any weapon with a TN other than 6 or 7 becomes either too good or too bad.
He does have a point though, which I also pointed out... who's got the experience and authority to set the more granular TNs? Right now, 5 is blazer, 6 is good, 7 is okay and 8 is unwieldy (or something along those lines). That's quite intuitive... so, I doubt that we could take that step towards a more granular approach without a figure of weapons authority being present.

Maybe we could persuade Jake to re-evaluate the stats he gave for the weapons for more granular approach? In my opinion, that's really the only way we fanboys would stop arguing what the real TNs would be like. :)

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:02 pm 
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I realise this might not be relevant directly to whether or not it would be a good choice for the mechanics, but I thought it's worth mentioning anyway.

I really dislike d20 and the idea of rolling more than one at a time horrifies me.

Sure, that might be a knee-jerk reaction - but I'd rather look for other ways to give meaning the weapon's than just upscale the dice. d10 are nicer to roll and read, and 10 is a more instinctive number to deal with. Just my opinion of course, but I doubt I'm the only person who feels like that.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:04 pm 
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GaGrin wrote:
I really dislike d20 and the idea of rolling more than one at a time horrifies me.
My initial reaction exactly, until I actually tried it. Scramble up 5d20 or so and try it out. :)

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:58 pm 
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lol - I think I own two.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:17 am 
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higgins wrote:

Maybe we could persuade Jake to re-evaluate the stats he gave for the weapons for more granular approach? In my opinion, that's really the only way we fanboys would stop arguing what the real TNs would be like. :)


Maybe you could. I know a lot more about weapons now than I did then.

...which means even more of them would be 6/6 now, lol.

Jake

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:23 am 
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GaGrin I also had the same trepidation, the size of the d20's worried me a bit, but the other night I compared them to the d10's and it isn't that bad. My biggest concern is that they roll (and thus scatter) more. My brother already can't keep his dice on the table, giving him marbles to roll could get messy :P

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:29 am 
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Jake Norwood wrote:
higgins wrote:

Maybe we could persuade Jake to re-evaluate the stats he gave for the weapons for more granular approach? In my opinion, that's really the only way we fanboys would stop arguing what the real TNs would be like. :)


Maybe you could. I know a lot more about weapons now than I did then.

...which means even more of them would be 6/6 now, lol.

Jake


Sweet, get your hands on a Dacian Falx and have a play around will ya :P I really want to use one, but the stats in TFoB are horrendous lol.

Whilst you're here, what is your "professional" opinion, would it be better to use d10's or d20's? Would the added steps aid in Weapon Design or hinder it?

Also Higgins, my stab at the d20 parralel to your d10 degrees of intuitiveness would be:

9 is blazer, 11 is good, 13 is okay and 15 is unwieldy

Then just "color between the lines" ;)

Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:47 am 
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GaGrin wrote:
lol - I think I own two.
I own two as well. If you can't find any more, you're not even trying. ;)

Jake Norwood wrote:
...which means even more of them would be 6/6 now, lol.
A good one. :lol:

Crow Caller wrote:
9 is blazer, 11 is good, 13 is okay and 15 is unwieldy

Then just "color between the lines" ;)
Indeed, but my question has always been... Whose crayons we can trust? ;) And IMO we have only one person available here whose word our whole community would take. Wink-wink. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:12 am 
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higgins wrote:
Indeed, but my question has always been... Whose crayons we can trust? ;) And IMO we have only one person available here whose word our whole community would take. Wink-wink. ;)


I'm flattered :), just playing. I agree actually, I think Jake is qualified to number alot of the weapons, and then from there we can use the Masters' Writings to extrapolate. Silver gives a good account of which weapon is superior based on various reasonings.

Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:30 am 
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Crow Caller wrote:
Silver gives a good account of which weapon is superior based on various reasonings.
Silver?

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:51 am 
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Master George Silver, an English Master. I'll find a link...

Here ya go.

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 Post subject: Re: EoS: d10 or d20?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:07 pm 
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Another potential issue is that very subtle differences between weapons may simply not be worth trying to show.

As much as I liked TFoB, it's not as if Core TRoS was lacking a range of weapons for us to use.

I'm not actually against fine-tuning, I just think it's more likely to create issues than fix them by having so many marginal differences. Granularity is only good if it adds noticeable detail, and I'm not entirely convinced this would.

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